Nass....Excuses excuses, the young O'Brien did nothing wrong, he travelled on the rails (The shortest route) and he was there if he was good enough turning in, he just didn't pick up. If you want to blame anyone for the slow pace then blame AOB for not running a pacemaker. JOB would have been running to instructions, and I can assure you his instructions wouldn't have been make the running. Had he forced the pace and still got beat you would have been slating him for that, basically the guy was on a hiding to nothing, SNA is a group 1 winner over a mile, so a slow pace shouldn't have been an issue, hence why AOB didn't run a pacemaker Not sure why your picking on Moore either, if they were concerned about a slow pace then Confront should have been in the race to set a stronger gallop, look what happened to Workforce in the same race last season when he was up there forcing the pace, he needs to come from off the pace to be seen at his best. The best horse won, no excuses for any of the beaten horses bar Rewilding, who in all honesty was travelling the worst of the 4 big guns before his tragic injury. Nathaniel has proved he is the best 12 furlong horse in the UK and Ireland just like I told you all
They didn't run a pacemaker because they thought they were going to get an honest pace. It turned out to be the slowest King George for over 10 years. In races you are looking for jockeys who take the race by the collar and go out and win it. W Buick did just that, he went on and took the best position up and decided to kick at the right time. The others gave him an easy lead and let him dominate. Ryan Moore perhaps can be excused as his horse was struck into, but I don't think for one minute that the best horse won the race. We will see more when Nathaniel runs in the Arc (for me I would still be with Pour Moi) SNA took every yard of the Coronation to pick up Midday, and that was off a better pace than today, they must have known that he needs an honest gallop if he is to be shown at his best (his mile form was at 2, this season he has needed every yard of a 1m4f trip) and he just looks a galloper. Nathaniel won because of Workforce being struck into, and also because he was given the best ride. In a big field Arc we may see something different (he may improve even more for a proper gallop). All about opinions and for me, Joseph should have forced them to go faster in the early stages.
Clearly you weren't watching the same race, Workforce wasn't touched by Rewilding who was a lengh behind Workforce when he fell. I would have said SNA didn't handle the track at Epsom that's why it took him a while to pick up Midday, dont forget Midday is a multiple 9 furlong G1 winner, so she is no slouch. Stop taking away from a great performance by Nathaniel, at the end of the day he is a galloper also, and all his form has been over 12f so a slow pace wouldn't have done him any good either, up against 3 horses who had all run well over shorter trips. SNA G1 winner over a mile, and WF just beaten by SYT over 10f, so they had shown more speed in there form than Nathaniel. The best horse won, just accept it
Well said KS.Nathaniel in no way got the race he wanted either. Best horse won,no doubt. PS thanks for responding to the message i sent you.
Have to agree with this conclusion. The race was not run to suit Nathaniel and yet he still ran out a convincing winner. I am sure it didn't suit any others either but every horse had their chance any nothing looked like getting to him.
... because he was ridden in the right position. Thus being my point. Interesting to hear that Gosden stated he told Buick to do as he felt was best. That is brilliant jockey instructions, allow the jockey to have the responsibility to ride to his best idea.
cant see how SNA needs a good pace,2 races in a row with now AOB pacemaker??AOB uses pacemakers in most top middledistance races and yet delibratley leaves one out ,twice now for SNA?i can also tell you his home straight sections at epsom were just behind pour moi's even though pour moi came of a faster pace and way behind dancing rain,albeit dancing rain was really slow fractions. to me SNA is not good enough ,and the fatc midday couldnt beat him leads me to believe she isnt as good as last year.jmo but evidence is buidling up now and next weeks nassau i dont think she will win.
DB.....I haven't received any message from you, I wouldn't ignore anyone if they messaged me, glad you had the winner aswell. Nass.....Buick didn't want to be in that position, you could see early on he was reluctant to lead and for the first half a mile he was forced to make the running, Debussy was not giving him a lead, wether this was a tactical decision from Godolphin to unsettle him, who knows? I can assure you none of the other 3 main contenders would have wanted to be in the position Nathaniel was at the start. Things did not go according to plan for Nathaniel and he still won the race, he goes to the Arc with every chance, though the 2 Andre Fabre horses will no doubt prove a tougher test than Workforce
Tx mate got 10-1 and 7-1. The message was ref the ground near Ascot as you live near there,but no probs i piled on Nathaniel anyway.
Interesting points.Run that race again with a proper gallop (that was farcical today) and absolutely no guarantee the same result will manifest. The jockey with the most imagination and talent won the race,time will render that a vaild contention...still undecided if the best horse won.
BTW,well done the lads who ignored ratings and stuck with their judgement re the winner....must admit was only my third choice.
I personally am not sure we can say Nathaniel has proved himself top class as i believe the form of the King George today is worthless as it was run at a crawl to begin with, followed by the terrible accident with Rewilding when pulling out to make his challenge, followed by Workforce losing all chance of Racing nathaniel by veering across. We did see that with a slow pace Nathaniel has the beating of St Nicholas abbey but little else. A typically false 5 runner race marred by a terrible accident mid race and a horse swerving half the track in the last half furlong, surely that cannot be held up as form to trust the result of.
Forget that ... it was effectively a sprint.. the whole pace of the race was a joke... we had a tragic accident to one of the fancies ( sympathies to Rewilding & his connections)... Workforce ran 6 lengths further than anything else.. no jockey showed any initiative early in the race. In fact, it was the most farcical Group 1 I have ever seen- and a terrible advert for top class flat racing. How anyone can ever shove the winner down anyone's throat is beyond me- or any horse in that comedy act! All I can say is... Roll on the jumps season!
Bluesky......Nathaniel had already proved he was a class act long before today, all you have to do is watch how strongly he travelled in the King Edward, horses don't travel with as much class as that if they are not class acts, that's why the proffesional money was down on him today, he was 10s earlier in the week, since then he halfed in price. At the end of the day, slow pace or not he has seen off 2 horses who had G1 form over shorter, and with all due respect to Rewilding he looked like he had his measure before his tragic accident, so thats 3 of the most high profile older horses that he had the measure of, all 3 having won or gone very close in G1s over shorter, yet all Nathaniel's form was over 12f. He was up against the 3 superpowers in British and Irish Racing in Godolphin, Juddmonte and Coolmoore, and only Godolphin ran a pacemaker, who didn't want to take it up to begin with, so that tells me there trainers were confident in there horses ability even off a slow pace. A real champion will win regardless of the pace, any horse who can only win off a strong pace is no champion. Workforce is a good horse but as far as Arc winners go, I'd probably rank him as one of the worst, maybe with the exception of Tony Bin. On form Nathaniel had no form bar maidens over shorter than 12f yet he still prevailed off a slow pace, what does that tell you?
Tamerlo.....All I can say is sour grapes, Nathaniel was taken to the rails and then hung right across to the middle of the track, so he too ran plenty of extra lengths. Workforce was never getting past, regardless of any hanging, the best horse won. The death of Rewilding was a bad advert for racing, but I don't for the life of me see how a slow pace made the race any less exciting
Shergar, no sour grapes from me- I'm no Workforce fan( the 6 lengths I referred to was 'when it mattered,' by the way). I just say it as I see it- nothing against the winner either. I just thought the whole race was a bit of a farce for a top class 12 furlong Group 1. Dexter, I'm not getting at anything apart from what I said. The only other thing I would add is that it's very disappointing and a sign of modern flat racing that you have only 5 runners for a race like the King George- who only have a handful of Group Ones between them for having raced for almost three years. As I said once before- semi-seriously- I'm waiting for a "two horse Group 1."
Tamerlo....The reason there were only 5 runners, is because nowadays the standard between the cream of the crop and the rest is massive. There are plenty of horse's who could have lined up today, and probably in years gone by would have taken there chance, but trainers are more aware of there horses ability's these days, and they would rather target there horses at more winnable races, most of the 3yo will be targeted at the Great Voltiger. You have to remember the profile of the big guns in this years King George was huge, and would have frightened many of the rest away, you had an Arc and Derby winner, the conquerer of Aussie wonder horse SYT and SNA who had a pretty high reputation beforehand. Perhaps you could name me some other horses who would have been good enough to mix it with the horses mentioned above, I know AOB has a few, but that's about it, and he's obviously reluctant to let his big guns clash. I'm not sure what you mean by "when it mattered" Nathaniel was hanging all over the place in the home straight, that's where it matters right? The horse that on form would have been most disadvantaged by the slow pace won, so the best horse won
I can't really argue about which horse was most/least suited by the tactics because I have no idea. Had it been run at a faster pace from the off it could have been a different story but we'll never know. Might have a better idea after the Arc. One thing I would say though is that Nathaniel looked to have a real raking stride (appeared to be covering a lot of ground) and would probably be even better on a sounder surface. I've never seen an SNA close up head shot before but I thought he has a lovely head. I would not have thought the tactics benefited him at all, having won over 8f on soft as a 2yo. I guess on a left handed track, Workforce needs something outside him to keep him straight but, if it's true, I would have thought the jockey would have known that. I hope the 3 stay well and all represent us in the Arc.
