Well, thanks for that. It's difficult to criticise someone when you don't mean to be hostile or patronising.
Karthikeyan gets a penalty
- Thread starter Bob Bobbinz
- Start date
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Well, thanks for that. It's difficult to criticise someone when you don't mean to be hostile or patronising.
What I was trying to get across with the 2 incidents was my opinion on what I read or heard from the people commentating about the situation.
With regard to Lewis at Monaco, I felt the majority considered that Massa was still a tool, Maldonado is still a pay driver and was stupid for going wide, Schumacher rant is justified as he is considered a cheater and the stewards do have it out for Lewis etc etc...
But this time I felt Narain was being excused for his own stupidity, yeah Seb did himself no favours by calling him a vegetable but Narain was no different to what happend with Lewis last season. For me it felt like Narain was entirely the victim and all the blame should be on Vettel.
For me it's two similair incidents but with two different outcomes of opinion. It's got nothing to do with Lewis or Vettel, or their fans "to a degree", but the media and the people over here in the UK is what I cant get my head across.
With regard to Lewis at Monaco, I felt the majority considered that Massa was still a tool, Maldonado is still a pay driver and was stupid for going wide, Schumacher rant is justified as he is considered a cheater and the stewards do have it out for Lewis etc etc...
But this time I felt Narain was being excused for his own stupidity, yeah Seb did himself no favours by calling him a vegetable but Narain was no different to what happend with Lewis last season. For me it felt like Narain was entirely the victim and all the blame should be on Vettel.
For me it's two similair incidents but with two different outcomes of opinion. It's got nothing to do with Lewis or Vettel, or their fans "to a degree", but the media and the people over here in the UK is what I cant get my head across.
You should maybe refresh your memory with a read through of the Monaco GP Chat thread. The amount of opprobrium heaped on Hamilton's head was greater than anything I can recall for any other driver and, IIRC, there were a lot of other equally hostile threads that had to be closed down.
I think you're still missing the point, though.
Which people? Which media outlets? I think most motorsports outlets report these things in a factual and straightforward way. If anything the BBC report used language that was critical of Hamilton, as did The Guardian.
Oh dont get me wrong it's not certain people here im directing it to for this comparison, but f1 fanatic, autosport, planet f1, comments from online newspapers with regard to the event.
Yeah maybe I'm being a bit too picky with this situation as I might of written a lot about Monaco but never really looked at the bigger picture as much as a Lewis fan would of. Yeah Lewis got verbally destroyed, Vettel also has been verbally destroyed, but it's the other side who got involved as well which were different in my opinion.
We would get a better reflection from a Lewis fan how the mass opinion with regard to Massa, Schumacher and Maldonado when they tussled with Lewis. For me thinking back what I read, though quite likely being different to yours genji is that the people opinions with regard to those 3 drivers were the same as they were before the incidents, they were still considered "under pressure" a "pay driver" and a "cheater". I believe that Narain is being treated as a victim now rather than what was being thought previously, aka "Narain is useless".
Same sort of situation, just different outcome of opinion with regard to the other "offendent"
It's not trying to compare Vettel vs Lewis, but more or less Massa+Maldonado+Schumacher vs Narain. 3 were still considered the same just like before, but the other one became a victim... in my opinion of course.
I think the difference is that people went after Hamilton all guns blazing after he put his foot very much in his mouth, this tide against him left very little space to feel sorry for his "victims". In Vettel's case there has been limited "attacks" on Vettel leaving more time to feel sorry for Karthikeyan. This is probably too simplistic a view but to generalise the whole event(s) thats how it looks.
Up until Schindlers List pretty much every film depicting a German since 1940 has demonised them, don't be surprised if 60 odd years of propaganda has an effect, particularly on the older generation who were subjected to it far more than we were, my Gran had hated Germans for most of her life, despite marrying a half german, none of her family were killed by them in either war, and she wasn't particularly affected by the war, it was just something imprinted on the national pysche.
I think most people have gotten over than now, although I'm still annoyed at Spain for what they tried to do in 1558
Ironically the British-German relations are some of the strongest in the world these days, or at least are in regards to business and Science. There will obviously always be those who hang onto past issues, as well of those who like hanging on to those who hang on, if you get me
I think most people have gotten over than now, although I'm still annoyed at Spain for what they tried to do in 1558
Ironically the British-German relations are some of the strongest in the world these days, or at least are in regards to business and Science. There will obviously always be those who hang onto past issues, as well of those who like hanging on to those who hang on, if you get me
I like the germans, all the ones i've ever met are really cool people.
Hey look. We have a new Kyle. Is that in accordance with the letter and the spirit of the regulations?
Yeah, I get what you say your point is, I just think you use almost any point to make another. I'll leave it at that.
As it happens I don't agree with your point about Karthikeyan anyway - correct me if I've overlooked something but I can't find any evidence that Autosport or other organs have themselves portrayed him as a victim. They have reported other drivers' opinions, such as those of Hulkenberg and Petrov, who do sympathise with Karthikeyan. What personal motives such drivers might have for doing so is open to debate but they're not "the public" or the reporting media outlets you mentioned.
Yeah, I get what you say your point is, I just think you use almost any point to make another. I'll leave it at that.
As it happens I don't agree with your point about Karthikeyan anyway - correct me if I've overlooked something but I can't find any evidence that Autosport or other organs have themselves portrayed him as a victim. They have reported other drivers' opinions, such as those of Hulkenberg and Petrov, who do sympathise with Karthikeyan. What personal motives such drivers might have for doing so is open to debate but they're not "the public" or the reporting media outlets you mentioned.
Kyle must be related to Ross brawn or something, found one of those grey areas we talk about every year in f1.
I hope the new version of Kyle is not going to be like Windows - you know - changing his mind about how things should work, fat, slow, riddled with American typos, needs tweaking every week, in order to Stop him you have to tell him to Start, and once you think you finally know him he says his views are unsupportable.
you'd be surprised at how long a people can hold enmity for, I suggest talking to a Jew, they've been on everyones ****-list since they alledgedly killed Christ, even then every account I've read say it was the Romans that crucified him.I think most people have gotten over than now, although I'm still annoyed at Spain for what they tried to do in 1558
Ironically the British-German relations are some of the strongest in the world these days, or at least are in regards to business and Science. There will obviously always be those who hang onto past issues, as well of those who like hanging on to those who hang on, if you get me
You have a high opinion of your fellow man, So I'll remind you that on it's first day of existence the Sunday Sun sold over 3million copies.
Of course prejudice exists, be it color, nationality, religion, size, social standing or many other reasons. But just because somebody doesn't like Hamilton, that doesn't automatically make them racist and nor does somebody disliking Vettel automatically make them Basil Faulty.
I'd like to hope that people who hold those kind of prejudiced views are in the minority.
I'd like to hope that people who hold those kind of prejudiced views are in the minority.
TomTom94
Well-Known Member
tomtom94:2563474 said:At this rate this thread will rival the 2012 megathread.
Makes ya want another back to back race weekend.
TomTom94
Well-Known Member
Makes ya want another back to back race weekend.
Screw the teams' human rights, I want mah racing!
tomtom94:2563556 said:Screw the teams' human rights, I want mah racing!
Too right!!!
Though currently watching the Indy from Alabama. Bloody good so far.
I love the fact these new cars can engage in some full contact racing.
I agree chrispa, the cucumber embassy will be sending a few letters to Germany sooner than later.