Kaboul

[JamesPGreaves_357]

I said at the time that missing out on Cahill would cost us. Its one of the only things i've ever got right so i remember it.

And you were right big time.

That season it was a CB. Last season it was a striker. Will we ever learn. Well judging from the defence that appeared v Monaco, the answer is 'no'.

The worst thing was that Nelsen wasn't even that bad, but Harry played a knackered King instead, resulting in the awful end to Led's career as King was bullied into submission by Grant Holt. Leds, whom I love, and is in my all-time Spurs XI did not deserve such an ignominious end to his career as he and we suffered during those awful days, as yet again we ****ed up on CL. I agree we were 'unlucky', just as we were last season. But we can't afford to rely on luck, as it doesn't seem to be our strong suit.

PS Of course Cahill wanted money we couldn't 'afford' but Chelsea could. That's why they're a much more successful club than us currently, and why they win trophies again and again, and we don't.

If we couldn't afford Cahill, which we couldn't when Chelsea came in, then get someone else in we could afford, that Harry rated more than Nelsen.

Incidentally of course we missed out big-time by not getting Cahill, he helped them to have the most fantastic season in their history and land their ultimate trophy, while we ended up with nowt. Cahill is way better than average. Assuming he's fit, guess what, he's better than all our current CBs, and it's a massive shame we won't see him trotting out v Palace.

 

[Roo]

Well, we do now need a caulker replacement so someone of vertonghen's quality is what we should be looking for. Sakho of psg, vlad the impaler, there are plenty of options if we act fast! Kaboul is still injured for god knows how long, and Dawson doesn't look like being "first choice" but judging by last year is very happy to stay in a rotational role! We should be looking for a starter

I've just realised that i've posted something very similar to this about an hour after you, KOTL. I hadn't actually read this post, so apologies.
spot on mate.

 

[vimhawk]

That's your opinion not mine, there's nothing more to say if you think that about my view.

I await Palace and the final table come May to see who has the valid opinion, me or you. My money's on me

I think you missed my point completely. I was asking a question about who we could get, how much is worth spending and how we would persuade them to join.

 

[JamesPGreaves_357]

I think you missed my point completely. I was asking a question about who we could get, how much is worth spending and how we would persuade them to join.

No, I think you missed my point entirely.

Your questions were fine, then you said this

'The trouble with these assertions is that it doesn't take into account real people and their cost.'

So effectively you're saying I don't know what I'm talking about.

Maybe you're right. I don't think you are, but either way that just finishes the debate for me.

Maybe I've misinterpreted what you're saying, if so maybe there is a further debate to be had.

 

[Dier Hard]

Hi SOS I admire your optimism, but isn't it fair to say that Khumalo isn't Prem calibre, as for Hall I know nothing about about him except he's a young CB.

My assumption is Spurs thought Vlad was 'nailed down' (boom boom )

Now they are desperately scouring here, there and everywhere for defenders, but guess what prices will be high, and rise even higher as our desperation becomes more apparent.

My guess is they're keeping schtum on Daws because it's a bad one and they don't want people to know about it. May be wrong, but as I keep saying Espanyol will tell us so much more. Not the result so much, the Spanish may just go through El motions, but who plays CB and LB, first half/second half.

Neither are Prem calibre yet but I'd rather field a natural CB alongside Daws rather than a makeshift one.

I think that was the case too, Chiriches was clearly thought to be nigh on a done deal but clearly the Steaua owner thought otherwise.

I wouldn't even read too much into the Espanyol game, with Daws the only CB that may have a chance of playing against Palace (unless Kaboul makes a shock appearance) then I personally wouldn't really want to risk Dawson against Espanyol on Saturday anyway. It's too much of a risk in my opinion. Even if it means Daws is still lacking a bit of match fitness, a 75% fit Daws against Palace is better than a 100% Hudd/ Livermore/ Fryers there. Hopefully the OS will update us on him soon though so we know the extent of the knock he's got.

 

[vimhawk]

No, I think you missed my point entirely.

Your questions were fine, then you said this

'The trouble with these assertions is that it doesn't take into account real people and their cost.'

So effectively you're saying I don't know what I'm talking about.

Maybe you're right. I don't think you are, but either way that just finishes the debate for me.

Maybe I've misinterpreted what you're saying, if so maybe there is a further debate to be had.

I try to not make any of this personal. I didn't intend that comment to sound like you don't know what you are talking about, it wasn't even aimed at you, it was more like a general comment that there is a lot more to consider when you are actually going to the practicalities of trying to sign people. However I am sorry you feel that it was so I apologise. As I said there was no intention of directing that comment at you.

 

[JamesPGreaves_357]

I try to not make any of this personal. I didn't intend that comment to sound like you don't know what you are talking about, it wasn't even aimed at you, it was more like a general comment that there is a lot more to consider when you are actually going to the practicalities of trying to sign people. However I am sorry you feel that it was so I apologise. As I said there was no intention of directing that comment at you.

Fair enough VH, and I apologise in turn if I over-reacted which I tend to do and know it

To look at your questions. It's not my job to find Spurs players. Almost never do you find me plucking names out of the air on any subject and saying we should buy 'x' or 'y'.

There are certain sites, NOT here I stress, which seem to be overrun by 'fanboys' who will say things like 'I'll jizz my pants if we buy Lamela' or whoever, and I'm thinking who's Lamela?

I'm also thinking this is a person who plays football computer games and also that I'm a grumpy 62 year old who doesn't play computer games and it takes a lot more than the prospect of some exotically-named footballer to get me to jizz my pants, I can tell you

However, for the purposes of this debate, I can say names like Vlad, 'Oldeworlde', Ilori, Rolando, cos I've read these names from 'ITK' and the like. Vlad, I looked into a bit as it looked like the famous 'done deal', and it seems he would be good for us. But I've never seen him play, it's just stats and You Tube that I'm going on.

HOWEVER, I'm 'olde school' and what I would look at are proven Prem players, eg Onohua, Micah Richards, Huth, Shawcross, to chuck some names into the mix, and no I wouldn't 'jizz my pants' over any of them.

It's just I'm more like 'Arry than AVB when it comes to looking at CBs. I'm still angry at AVB for trying to offload Daws, because he's my type of defender and player.

Regarding cost, well that's an argument that goes wider of course.

I've said time and again I don't share the 'love-in' with ENIC that many Spurs fans have, for me time and again they have held us back by refusng to spend their own money on us, and just relying on the money they receive from fans, directly, through ticket sales etc, or indirectly, through TV money, etc.

To me, clubs like Chelsea and City always blow us out of the water, because if they need players they buy them. A classic case was Cahill. Now, I understand they are financed in a different way, and I wish eNIC would move aside and we would get in a billionaire benefactor like them. Monaco are the latest to show how brilliant it can be for a club.

HOWEVER, the facts are ENIC are in charge so we look at them not fantasyland (BTW I wouldn't jizz my pants if we got took over by a billionaire benefactor, but boy would it make an old man happy )

Surely, even if ENIC can't afford to lavish hundreds of millions on us, an extra 30-40m per year above our income wouldn't go amiss. Even if they used that money to build the training ground, our stadium etc and thus freed up valuable money for us to buy players with.

I think the post is long enough now, and I hope I've answered some questions

To a large extent it depends on what 'real world' you want to inhabit.

 

[Spurm]

Richards is a good shout imo. Got the talent but up at City they are drowning in talent. Can play centre and right back which is handy and has pace which is so important with the high line.
Decent age too.

Unlikely, but he might be one, like Johnson, who would take a pay cut to actually start playing again

 

[JamesPGreaves_357]

Neither are Prem calibre yet but I'd rather field a natural CB alongside Daws rather than a makeshift one.

I think that was the case too, Chiriches was clearly thought to be nigh on a done deal but clearly the Steaua owner thought otherwise.

I wouldn't even read too much into the Espanyol game, with Daws the only CB that may have a chance of playing against Palace (unless Kaboul makes a shock appearance) then I personally wouldn't really want to risk Dawson against Espanyol on Saturday anyway. It's too much of a risk in my opinion. Even if it means Daws is still lacking a bit of match fitness, a 75% fit Daws against Palace is better than a 100% Hudd/ Livermore/ Fryers there. Hopefully the OS will update us on him soon though so we know the extent of the knock he's got.

Fair comments SOS. One problem with Khumalo or Hall featuring would be the blow to AVB's pride/judgement. No-one can surely doubt that Caulker is better than both of them, so to have sold him (and I assume ABV backed the sale) only to field clearly 'inferior' players would make him and the club look very silly indeed. TBH, it already looks very silly to have sold Caulker, but that would be 'rubber stamping' the ineptitude, IMHO.

We'll have to see what happens. I agree Espanyol isn't the final arbiter of who plays v Palace, but really, apart from Bale, anyone who doesn't appear at all against them, in my eyes, won't start against Palace. Daws may be held back, but again IMO, the longer the OS keeps schtum, the more convinced I am, it's not good news they're holding back.

 

[JamesPGreaves_357]

Richards is a good shout imo. Got the talent but up at City they are drowning in talent. Can play centre and right back which is handy and has pace which is so important with the high line.
Decent age too.

Unlikely, but he might be one, like Johnson, who would take a pay cut to actually start playing again

Hi Spurm, yep Richards might take a pay cut, or we could cobble together an 'Ade-style' deal that helps both clubs out.

It seems the players accepted Ade coming in on 'inflated wages' because of the situation, so maybe they would accept Micah coming in likewise, while immediately talking with their agents about 'new contract talks' doubtless.

As Vimhawk indicates, and I certainly agree, all these considerations are tricky in the 'real world'. However, IF we are serious about top4 and winning a trophy, we have to overcome these hurdles. The three dominant clubs currently, Utd, City and Chelsea all do this.

They, of course, have resources way beyond ours. But either we start spending, or it continues to be 'pop guns against tanks' and another season goes past with us 'potless in London'. (Probably )

 

[Roo]

They, of course, have resources way beyond ours. But either we start spending, or it continues to be 'pop guns against tanks' and another season goes past with us 'potless in London'. (Probably )

This is what I was getting at in my reply to you yesterday GH10. - In the past, we've not made a net spend (or very little). However, so far in this window we have. It currently stands at £35m. Things have/are changing, it seems.

I've always just wanted us to at least TRY to compete. No one can say we're not doing that now.

We should all feel more positive in this window after the signings we've made so early on, and the fact there's still time to sort out other issues.

 

[No Kane No Gain]

Richards is a good shout imo. Got the talent but up at City they are drowning in talent. Can play centre and right back which is handy and has pace which is so important with the high line.
Decent age too.

Unlikely, but he might be one, like Johnson, who would take a pay cut to actually start playing again

And as a defensive midfielder too. Lescott would be my first choice for centre back but that's even less likely so Richards could be a good stand in before going back to competing with Walker at right back and being an all-round useful player. It might be difficult to convince Kyle and Richards that competing so directly with each other is a good idea in a World Cup season though.

 

[Spurm]

the only negativity on this board with regards to the window is the CB position. If we get in 1 CB and Daws is fit for the start of the season then i will be happy.
Depending on Kaboul we might need another additional CB before the window closes too.
Letting Caulker go without a replacement was silly, but as others have said he might have wanted out and maybe wasn't happy at 4th choice. If so, fair play to him for wanting games.

We could do both those with money from player sales if we work quickly, that will turn this into an AMAZEBALLS window.

 

[Roo]

the only negativity on this board with regards to the window is the CB position. If we get in 1 CB and Daws is fit for the start of the season then i will be happy.
Depending on Kaboul we might need another additional CB before the window closes too.
Letting Caulker go without a replacement was silly, but as others have said he might have wanted out and maybe wasn't happy at 4th choice. If so, fair play to him for wanting games.

We could do both those with money from player sales if we work quickly, that will turn this into an AMAZEBALLS window.

There has to be a defender coming in this week. The club isn't that stupid. But with "lockdown" in full flow, we aren't finding out anything!

We need a CB to play against espanyol if poss. It's probably too late for that now, but I'm very confident one will be signed this week, in order to give that person a week's training with the team. We have no choice but to do so, if the injuries to the other CB's are "touch and go".

 

[JamesPGreaves_357]

This is what I was getting at in my reply to you yesterday GH10. - In the past, we've not made a net spend (or very little). However, so far in this window we have. It currently stands at £35m. Things have/are changing, it seems.

I've always just wanted us to at least TRY to compete. No one can say we're not doing that now.

We should all feel more positive in this window after the signings we've made so early on, and the fact there's still time to sort out other issues.

Fair comments Roo, and it LOOKED like we were heading in the right direction, till we offloaded Caulker without getting in a replacement first.

Moreover, as a club we have gained about an extra £35m from the new TV deal, coincidentally (?) that's about the same amount of our net spend so far. So have we changed tactics or are we simply spending the extra income we've got from TV?

We'll see. As I said yesterday, fair play to your optimism, me I'll wait till the Palace game, then the first game after the window closes, and then till how our cup runs pan out and we finish in the Lge.

Basically, 'By your fruits shall ye know them'. So far ENIC have done a pretty good job IMO, but not the outstanding job I want as a fan desperate for success.

 

[Kings of the Lane]

James; why do you feel enic should spend even £1 of their own money? Under Enic we've done far better than the previous owners? The rubbish 90s... I appreciate how we are run and that we aren't just some rich playboy's toy. They're ruining the game and I don't want us to go the same way. If we won the league running in the black, that's so much more impressive in my eyes.

 

[Spurm]

There has to be a defender coming in this week. The club isn't that stupid. But with "lockdown" in full flow, we aren't finding out anything!

We need a CB to play against espanyol if poss. It's probably too late for that now, but I'm very confident one will be signed this week, in order to give that person a week's training with the team. We have no choice but to do so, if the injuries to the other CB's are "touch and go".

Lets hope its the "roo dream team deal" you've got us hoping for eh ;P

 

[Roo]

Fair comments Roo, and it LOOKED like we were heading in the right direction, till we offloaded Caulker without getting in a replacement first.

Moreover, as a club we have gained about an extra £35m from the new TV deal, coincidentally (?) that's about the same amount of our net spend so far. So have we changed tactics or are we simply spending the extra income we've got from TV?

We'll see. As I said yesterday, fair play to your optimism, me I'll wait till the Palace game, then the first game after the window closes, and then till how our cup runs pan out and we finish in the Lge.

Basically, 'By your fruits shall ye know them'. So far ENIC have done a pretty good job IMO, but not the outstanding job I want as a fan desperate for success.

Caulker was a different matter. The deal happened for certain reasons; it wasn't the club being careless in their thinking. - So let's forget about that one and move on.

So we've gained revenue... and spent it? Great, if you ask me! If it's affordable, which I'm sure it is, at least we haven't pocketed it and we've actually put it towards the team. There's rumours of more players coming in according to Keith Mills, so it looks like we're going to continue spending!

Who knows, if some more of the dead wood is sold, maybe that money will go towards players too? Even if it doesn't and that money is used to make up for how much we've spent, at least we'll have strengthened, as well cut loose some of those who have been here for too long.

All in all, it's shaping up to be a good transfer window, however you look at it.

 

[Spurm]

Baldy is also a factor IMO. Levy is not a director of football and i'm sure he has other jobs to do other than negotiating with anyone and everyone all summer.
AVB, who was here part of last summer, is not a transfer guy. So for a large part of last summer we had no transfer-guy. Before we had Harry, who is most definitely a transfer guy.

^^^^
Huh?

 

[Spurlock]

I'm glad our goalkeeper issue has been solved.