Dai, your use of the term 'under training' is really misleading, as they are simply getting additional qualifications to become GP's or Consultants....it's not as if they are still in medical school! They are qualified Doctors that have already been through 5+ yrs of Medical School, and the majority of the them will have worked damned hard to get through the 5 years.....only to find they have to deal with ungrateful twats like you!
You're so misguided it's unreal. I can't listen to anyone who compares binmen with doctors, so to be honest your entire argument became void in my eyes at that point. The wages there are certainly correct - numerous friends of mine are junior doctors in England and that's the salary. 5 day week? Many of them go over 10 days without a day off while working 12 hour night shifts - but now, all that overtime that they're forced to work? Let's take 25 hours per week of that away so it's encorporated in your salary (i.e. not even classed as overtime anymore). This is happening, and denying it is sticking your head in the sand (or up your own arse in your case). The government is going to continue overworking junior doctors (which is the actual issue that needs addressing), but pay them much less for it. Using the NHS for their qualifications? It's the opposite, the NHS is begging for people to become doctors as they don't have enough of them - hence why they have to bring in so many foreign doctors, and why junior doctors end up being so overworked. Less and less kids are going to want to become doctors as a result of this contract - they are making the problem worse in the long run to save a quick buck. Get this in your thick skull - junior doctors are fully trained. They are fully fledged doctors. They have graduated. They are not medical students. They have done 5 years in medical school and 2 years foundation training in hospitals. The only training they do beyond that is to become a consultant (i.e. a specialist in a medical field) or GP. They are not paid while they are medical students, and with 5 years as one, they leave university in more debt than many other students can care to imagine. Currently, per hour worked (remember, lots of junior doctors work 70-80 hour weeks), many junior doctors could earn more working as an assistant manager at KFC - now what does that tell you about how the government values doctors? What does that tell us about how you value doctors? I saw that you said they should "sack the lot of them" the other day?! That'll help the situation, won't it... One day you're going to need these doctors (probably to surgically remove your head from your arse), and I wish people like you that so openly insulted them during this dispute could be branded so that they could recognise your bigoted views and refuse to treat you.
Killer quote: "One day you're going to need these doctors (probably to surgically remove your head from your arse)"
Any job that improves, repairs or saves the lives of our people deserve to be on the upper pay scale of our tax funded services ! If it was then we would have no shortages of staff sourced from our own people, but this is arse backward UK so we have to take what we can get and should be grateful for them. I had a bump yesterday and am in hospital at the mo and the staff I've spoke to here are brilliant even though they are on their feet constantly bombing around doing stuff on their 12 hour shifts, big respect for them even more now for the first time I've needed them myself. The pork balti I just had was great too . so IMO every level of the service that actually do the real work ( Indians and not so many of the Chiefs at the very top ) deserve credit.
Anybody involved in the care of people in hospitals get anything they want IMO . They are the salt of the earth . They do their jobs with great humanity ,with humility . Imagine going home after a hard days work at a hospital , watching and caring for others through horrendous scenarios, and run a happy home life ......and they do . Takes a special person to take It on , in a variety of jobs .You can fianacially sh:t on these people and they will just come to work , I' m married to one , be it in a non Doctor role . Doctors ....doctors pay huge money and time to learn How to care for the sick to get in a position to get sh:t on ......To take advantage of these peoples good nature should be a crime IMO .
The public sector need to put up or shut up. These pampered twits should do a real days work in the private sector.
Come and do a days work in the education sector then Lee. I arrive at school at 7:30 am and leave most days around 5-5:30 pm (I get paid from 8:20-3:20). I then go to the gym for an hour or so then work for another 3 hours every night on top of that, marking, planning, paperwork, data etc. Would of you work 7-8 hours every day for no pay like I do Lee?
I've worked in the public sector (CPS) but since 1991 I've been on my own. Yes, there are huge advantages to working for the Government - paid holidays, you're unlikely to get sacked unless you really misbehaved, pensions are decent and well protected, etc etc. But that doesn't mean public sector workers are 'pampered' at all. Many people in the private sector get those advantages too. But those in the public sector do tend to get paid considerably less than their private centre counterparts. Compare salaries of NHS doctors to those at private hospitals, for example.
Trainee doctors currently have a starting salary of £22,636 - at Foundation Year 1 (F1) - rising with experience to reach £30,000 within four years. Doctors in specialist training (ST) receive a salary of between £30,002 and £47,175, while those who make the grade can earn up to £69,325. You don't just walk off the street to start as a trainee doctor either, as they are expected to have a medical degree, which can take between five to six years to get. Junior doctors enjoy a boost to their salary thanks to a complex system of supplements. This means they can earn on average £40,000 in the initial stages of training, according to the Department of Health's estimates, and £56,000 in the later stages. How does this compare to other starting salaries? Trainee doctors do not stand out as very well paid among post-university jobs.According to High Fliers research, almost a third of graduate programmes at Britain's leading employers now pay more than £35,000, leaving graduate doctors in the shade. Junior doctors also have the disadvantage, compared to their peers, of having to study for a few more years, so by the time they start, others in different professions are further up the ladder. But what about cuts to their pay? The Department for Health rejects any suggestion that doctors will see reduced pay across the board, stating that the proposals would see average basic salary more than 13 per cent higher However, the changes are complex. An increase in basic pay means increased pensions costs for doctors (as well as gains for them in retirement). Junior doctors say that means many would lose out, once "pay protection" comes to an end in 2019. However, the increase in basic pay is not an increase in overall earnings. Instead, it would offset losses from other changes in the contract, such as the lower earnings attached to working evenings and weekends.
