And four matches for racist abuse. Spitting apparently worse than racism. Then they wonder why football still has a race problem...
Probably because racist abuse is just words (ignorant ******ed words, but words nonetheless). Spitting is an action, much like a punch, actions speak louder than words Actions should get bigger bans than words.
Not under the law. Common assault is punishable by up to six months in prison Racially aggravated public order offences are punishable by up to two years in prison When you spit, you attack an individual, when you are racist you attack an entire race. Also links back to the previous point about a punch or throwing someone to the ground getting a three, or even only two, match ban whilst spitting is six matches. Tbh it just links back to the antiquated attitudes in football about spitting being "the worst thing that can be done on a football pitch". It isn't. It's not even close, but until the game as a whole is honest about these type of things then football will continue to have racist, sexist and general public image problems.
This is the FA though mate, when do they get things right. A lot of it stems back to the days when "men were men" and didnt cry when people said things to them. EDIT: I should add that I dont entirely hold to this ideal but thats the way men were expected to behave 30-40 years ago, when most of the old guys in charge were younger. I would much rather be called a Honkey than get punched or spat at, but thats just me. Racism is wrong, but its not footballs fight. Racism is a social issue worldwide, and a football governing body will not and can not do anything about it....EVER. Governments, parents and schools need to deal with racism, by educating the young. No point trying to re programme a guy who is already racist, it aint gonna work. You need to instil awareness and tolerance into children whilst they are young. All the FA can do is ban people when they say stupid, racist things, and wait for the world to do its work and breed and educate racism out.
But that's assault. If you assault somneone, you'll get a bigger sentence than if you verbally abuse them racially. You lot are intent to minimise this action by comparing it to others actions....however totally unrelated. It was a disgusting act, pure and simple and he's got what he deserves.
That's pretty much my point. Until the FA moves on from its dinosaur attitudes about the game and catches up with society as a whole, it will continue to have image problems. I agree that the FA can't solve social problems like racism. But as long as it continues to tacitly condone them (FIFA as well) with lesser sanctions for racism than for spitting, advertising, filling in the wrong form when signing a player, spending too much money etc then it will continue to be part of the problem rather than part of the solution. No you don't. Unless you cause actual or grievous bodily harm, you will get a bigger sentence for racist abuse than for spitting at someone. But don't let your tribalism distract from the facts. You wouldn't be a true Liverpool fan if you did
To be fair doing a quick google search I can't find anyone getting more than a matter of weeks for racism (and usually it's for inciting racial hatred it seems), 56 days and 10 weeks are the two examples that come up first. But four months is the first sentence that comes up for spitting at someone. So regardless of the maximum penalties available it would seem in practice (at least based on 30 seconds of google research) that spitting gets a worse punishment...
They have both been banned, and that is that - however, there is one important element in all of this that I do think has been overlooked. If you watch the slow-motion video of the incident I don't actually think that Evans deliberately spits at Cisse - yes he spits, but the video clearly shows that he spits towards the ground and misses Cisse altogether (Cisse was rising up from the ground to standing at that precise moment and moved in a direction towards where Evans was spitting - an important distinction). I believe that Cisse mistakenly believed that Evans had purposefully spat at him and then retaliated 'in kind' by spitting directly at Evans. That I beleieve is the distinction that Evans was trying to make when he denied spitting 'at' Cisse. An unsavoury incident, but I personally believe that Evans has been harshly treated.
Absolutely correct of course but this isn't allowed as it wouldn't; A, allow people to be outraged and B, compare it with crimes their own players have committed in order to justify them. As this is the law on football forums and within the football media in general a sensible and obvious assessment is not permitted.
Really? 15 and a half months for racist abuse is the first one I found: http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/M...isery-racist/story-26052270-detail/story.html That's an extreme example, but more than could be given for a spitting offence under UK law. I think a lot of the sentences depend on the context and the previous behaviour - I'm talking about the sentencing guidelines and the maximum allowable under law.
I wouldn't say that lesser punishments for making a comment rather than say, a punch, is technically an endorsement of racism! I agree that the FA do have an outdated look on such matters though. Thing is, there is a distinct difference, for me, between being a racist and making a racist comment. Being a racist means you hold an irrational hatred for an entire race, for whatever ****ed up reason you believe in. Making a comment deemed as racist tho? Doesn't mean you are member of the BNP and want to kill all blacks! Just a heat of the moment thing. Also bear in mind that in the issue of racist remarks, its not always clear what was said, in what context it was said and what the intentions were behind it. So there is a blurry line surrounding it. A punch, however, is a punch, it has one intention, to hurt someone and you cannot dispute it happening if its caught on camera. Most of the time with racist comment situations, its one word against another, so a persons guilt is not always clear cut. If you handed out 10 game bans to everyone accused of making a racist comment, that could be dangerous and could be abused.
That was my first thought on seeing the incident, but given the force with which Evans spat I think it was almost impossible to avoid some spit landing on Cisse. It wasn't just a single gob it was a proper mouthful, so I think given how Evans was standing over him it would be almost impossible to avoid hitting him with some of it. Pretty sure when watching the game Cisse wiped his face afterwards, so he was obviously caught by it. Maybe he was slightly harshly treated, but I think it's something that would still have to be punished. Otherwise you run the risk of players spitting on others then claiming they weren't aiming for them and just hit them by accident.
That's not what you said. You said that common assault would end up with a bigger sentence than racial abuse. That is factually incorrect. If you assault someone due to race, it would be correct but again, that's not what you said. You took a broad brush through racially aggravated offences. These can range from verbal to physical assault and sentencing would differ accordingly.........You can't compare the two. Unless you're a myopic Utd fan looking to deflect away from a disgusting, diabolical act that is.
Not endorsing, but condoning by not acting strongly. It's partly the penalties for players, but also stuff like nations getting a slap on the wrist when an entire crowd engages in racist chanting, but getting banned if they fail to show the right sponsorship or don't have enough corporate hospitality seats. I appreciate that it can be difficult to prove racism when compared to punching or spitting. But then as has been point out above it wasn't clear that Evans deliberately spat at Cisse, or was just trying to shout at him with a mouth of spit and a load just flew out. And ultimately the guidelines for racist abuse are that it is a maximum of four matches per offence, so even if someone has obviously and deliberately racially abused someone, with plenty of witnesses and no doubt, then they still get a lesser punishment than someone who spits on another player by mistake.
No I didn't. I said "Common assault is punishable by up to six months in prison Racially aggravated public order offences are punishable by up to two years in prison" I understand it's hard for you to grasp, but I'm not talking about Evans at all. That's a separate issue. I'm talking about the disparity between FA punishments, which are more lenient for racist abuse than for spitting, and common law, which allows higher penalties for racist abuse than for spitting. Put your tribalism aside for just a minute, and just consider the objective nature of the two offences. Personally I think racist abuse, and punching or deliberately attacking someone, is a worse offence than spitting at them, and the law is broadly in agreement with me. The FA, on the other hand, are off in their own world as usual.
And I'm just saying that you cannot compare the two. Racially aggravated public order offences actually includes common assault
I read that as the FA making a compromise. They are not prepared to make a courtroom drama of every incident of racial abuse, he said, she said, if they gave someone a 10 game ban who was bang to rights, then they would have to give the same ban to anyone accused of racism, even if the evidence is not as strong. Once again, they are a football governing body, not a high court. They shouldn't have to play Petrocelli everytime this happens and turn it into a full blown enquiry, their primary focus is the operation and governance of English football. A racial abuse accusation is an entire different kettle of fish to fisticuffs. The alleged victim should take his issue to the police and let them deal with it imo, as was done in the JT case. Expecting it to all rest on the FAs rather inept shoulders is unrealistic.
No it doesn't. http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/public_order_offences/ They are completely different offences, covered under different laws, and the CPS clearly states that people are not usually charged with both. I can see your point, and appreciate the limits on the FA. But ultimately they are very keen on zero tolerance towards spitting, diving, punching, swearing etc, and remarkably wishy washy on racism, unless it's a high profile media driven case. Just gives the impression of a body that is lacking in strength or leadership, and thus not really well suited to the governance of arguably one of the highest profile sporting bodies in the world.
