Bony and Scotland = Strikers, role is to score. JDG plays alongside Britton in many games, and also Shelvey in others, in a role which is not attacking, therefore your comparing apples and oranges. When JDG's role is to get forward, like certain games last season where Michu would play up front, and JDG behind, then not a problem, but as a midfielder it is his job to cover both offence and defence. After all, if Michu can put a shift in defensivly as our AM, then I damn well expect JDG to put a shigft in too when he is our CM. Or shall we now allow the likes of Dyer, Routs, Davies and Rangel, not to worry about defensive duties and tracking back, because their role is to get forward?
Disagree, scoring the odd cracker doesn't make up for the fact he doesn't work hard to help the team defend and retrieve the ball, or just stands/walks around when he loses possession. He is also very lightweight in the tackle (that's if he even bothers attempting the tackle). He also goes missing very often when we are under the cosh thus leaving whoever he partners alongside in MF over run
I think NJ's point is that not working hard might contribute to an overall poor team performance whereas scoring the odd cracker actually wins us games.
Yes but what you expect is totally irrelevnt, its just your opinion that he dont work hard, maybe to others he does the job he is supposed to do ? its a classic swans fan thing to love players because they run around like headless chickens . Laudrup seems pretty good at judging midfielders and i think he sees the benifit of having a playing who creates and scores is more benificial than having someone who runs around aimlessly but puts in 100% running effort Truth is JDG is our most prolific scorer and assist guy at the club after Michu, he is the usual scapegoat when we lose and we all know the club must have one of those players dont we !
By the way not having Routs,Dyer,rangel and davies tracking back has been more of a problem than JDG not tracking back! Just look at the goals we concede and see how many you can pin on JDG and how many you can pin on other players, the slagging off of JDG is somewhat misplaced as his apparent lack of tackling isnt what cost us games, but his apparent eye for a pass and a goal sure does win us plenty Alot of the posters here are just following sheep by focusing on one players short comings when the reason we spunk away points is very often down to club favourites, another swans fan triat is to ignore the failings of favourite players Somebody come up with the stats about JDG and lets see how his contribution breaks down, i bet some will be suprised
Well there must be a number of sheep herders on here then NJ as a number of posters have pointed to JDG lack of effort etc on numerous occasions over the past 12 months
He does stand out more often than most when we're struggling ? Shirley he is good enough to not only be a good finisher at times but also up his work rate a bit to be less conspicuous in his absence when were under the cosh ?
You mean like I never criticised Rangel for the goals conceded against United? or when I have criticised Dyer for his short comings or when I have criticised Shelvey, Britton, JDG? If criticism is warranted in my mind, I will give it, favouritism is not really my style, just my type of player is a guy that has a bit of both, the mindset to work for the team (its what got us to where we are remember) along with the new added skill players can bring now we are in the prem and a good choice for the players like Michu, Bony, Hernandez. But, that does not mean I can forgive JDG who plays as a CM most times, not an AM, as you are comparing him as, his primary role is to help control the midfield, if it was any different, he would be further up the pitch right? Shelvey is the same as JDG, a midfielder who likes to get forward, the difference is, Shelvey has the mindset to get back. As I said, if its good enough for Michu, Routs, Dyer, Hernandez, Britton, Shelvey, Canas, Pozuelo and Ki (when he is here) to track back, then why is one player allowed to get away with it? Now it doesn't always work out, and mistakes happen, they are midfielder's, but JDG is just plain awful at those defensive duties. I have no doubt JDG is a skillful player, but he needs to work on his off the ball game, he is not amazing enough going forward to counter his lack of effort to track back. Sorry, he is no Messi, who does enough to cover his defensive faults. Rooney last season played AM, yet tracked back. Michu when in AM, tracks back. So why do you think that JDG as a central midfielder, should get away with not tracking back? 3 of our more offensive players in our regular formation (wingers, attacking midfielder) track back more than our Central midfielder, and you are happy with that? Am sorry, but I cannot fathom how you can even think that. You talk about his offensive role, yet for assists: JDG = 7 Dyer = 7 Hernandez = 6 Routs = 5 Goals JDG = 5 Routs = 5 Dyer = 3 Hernandez = 3 Not bad considering JDG gets all those set pieces to take to add to that tally, or those corners and free kicks to achieve some assists too. So is he really that great an offensive threat, to counter his lack of defensive duties, no bloody way. Thjen look at games played Starts: (sub) - tot JDG = 33 (4) - 37 Hernadez = 27 (3) - 30 Dyer = 35 (12) - 37 Routs = 30 (6) - 36 So I would expect his stats to be higher added to his set piece duties, appearances, so again, I ask, doss his offensive threat, counter the lack of his defensive duties?
Yes and i was probably the first to point it out Point is though, how long do you keep moaning about the same things ? and at what point do you actually realise the guy is never going to become a different player so there comes a time where acceptance must take over from the churning out of the same old tosh, surely by now even the dullest of swans fans know he aint gonna be a complete midfielder,hence why he is at the Swans on loan ! The funny thing is that people still want to talk about a failing the likes of Ivor and myself were debating over a year ago. i think its time to move on and start apreiciating the stronger aspects of his game as well, we all know he is crap at tracking back we all know he is not great in the tackle but even after a fine performance people still prefer to talk about that rather than the fact he actually contributes his fair share to our success, in fact behind Michu he is our most valuable asset,even if some fail to see it. JDG - doesnt run around enough for some people but instead scores the goals and gives the assists that keep our premier league status
What you mean is "no bloody way in my opinion " Mr Laudrup tends to disagree with you though As i said over a year ago when most of you were slow on the up take tracking back aint his strong point but you need to realise that all the players have faults, after a while its time to move on and accept the guy will never be that kind of player,thats one of his faults and why he is here . Moaning about him not tracking back is something we can level at all of the midfield from time to time ,some of you seem to think if you constantly pick up on the obvious it makes you some kind of an expert. The JDG not tracking back argument left town over a year ago so im quite suprised that people are still suprised when they see him not doing it!... Laudrup thinks he does better in other aspects and i tend to agree
I updated my post, for you to see the premier league stats, and sorry it does not make pretty reading regarding JDG's lack of defensive duties im afraid.
To save you having to go back, willr epost ASSISTS JDG = 7 Dyer = 7 Hernandez = 6 Routs = 5 GOALS JDG = 5 Routs = 5 Dyer = 3 Hernandez = 3 Appearances Starts: (sub) - tot JDG = 33 (4) - 37 Hernadez = 27 (3) - 30 Dyer = 35 (12) - 37 Routs = 30 (6) - 36 Not bad considering JDG gets all those set pieces to take to add to that tally, or those corners and free kicks to achieve some assists too. So is he really that great an offensive threat, to counter his lack of defensive duties, no bloody way.
Or how about we add Michu, who gives his all for the team offensive and will track back. Goals: 18 Assists: 2 Appearances: 35 (0) - 35 Michu has the right to not track back, JDG does not.
I can run around like a headless chicken for 90 minutes too That same article So what teh hell was JDG doing with all that running we know he cant track back, so he must be doing it right up the offensive end right?
You guys still dont get it do you ? It aint what you think its what Laudrup thinks. Some of us sussed all this over a year ago, but after a year its kind of time to let it go ! the player has failings like all our others so why people still feel the need to keep bringing it up is beyond me . If you feel it still needs to be mentioned then knock your self out but Laudrup sees that JDG brings goals and assists and thats why he is playing him. you highlight that Routs,dyer and Pablo also make assists and score goals but the fact remains that JDG scored and created more/just as many than them Both Dyer ,routs and pablo have received pelters on here for not tracking players too, so im guessing it means no tracking back = plenty of goals ... If you want to keep knocking him go ahead, some will always need a punch bag in the team and he fits the bill better until the same people start losing patience with Bony...probably for not running around enough
hmmmm interesting SHELVEY Minutes: 580 Goals: 1 Shots: 15 Assists: 1 Crosses:21 ----------- Blocks: 2 Clearances: 15 DE GUZMAN Minutes: 277 Goals: 2 Shots: 10 Assists: 0 Crosses:17 ----------- Blocks: 0 Clearances: 2 ROUTLEDGE Minutes: 486 Goals: 1 Shots: 4 Assists: 3 Crosses: 23 ----------- Blocks: 1 Clearances: 6 DYER Minutes: 386 Goals: 1 Shots: 10 Assists: 0 Crosses: 27 ----------- Blocks: 0 Clearances: 2 HERNANDEZ Minutes: 225 Goals: 1 Shots: 4 Assists: 2 Crosses: 9 ----------- Blocks: 0 Clearances: 8 MICHU Minutes: 630 Goals: 3 Shots: 26 Assists: 2 Crosses: 3 ----------- Blocks: 0 Clearances: 18 POZUELO Minutes: 142 Goals: 0 Shots: 5 Assists: 1 Crosses: 5 ----------- Blocks: 0 Clearances: 3 So after all that, his offensive duties isn't all that after all.........
Yes very interesting, I form my opinions on a seasons work not a couple of games. This time last season wernt the Swans top or in a champions league spot ? ... i rest my case
You don't get it either I'm afraid, a midfielder who plays in the centre is not there for just going forward, if that was the case, he would never go back at all, the only time he goes back is whilst strolling back and ball watching, and not tracking his man, which has cost us a number of goals already since he got here. Other players are guilty of it at times too, however not to the same extent that JDG is. You say its because he focuses on his offensive duties, will based on the stats above, he is not too super in that either, not when you consider he is a free kick taker and corner taker, surely he should get something......surely. I don't dislike JDH, I just dislike his lack of efforst when not attacking, and his off the ball motions. ITS LAZY. If Laudrup thinks its ok for JDG to not track back, then why is Michu tracking back, or is it ok that he uses his noggin and works for the team, whilst we have a player, further back, that just watches? I would like to think that Laudrup knows JDG has a weakness there, and surely he will be attempting to rectify it, but just because Laudrup plays him, does that mean we cannot discuss our opinions on him? After all, I am backing up what I am saying with what stats I can find, what are you doing to back yours other than claim Laudrup is playing him? Which yes is a good case, I am not disputing JDG is a good player, but he has a lot to learn, or because he is a;lright going forward should we not e allowed to voice an opinion on it. You would be good as a coach wouldn't you, "its ok Jonathan, I brought this up with you last season , you haven't change,d so lets forget about it, don't worry at all defending, you just play your way" He won't learn nothing with that sort of attitude, and I hope to god our coaches don't have the same thoughts as yourself.
