James McLean scum or dead right

But the poppy has taken on a more wide range than just the world wars these days.
Its for "Heroes" who died in Afghanistan/Iraq/Northern Ireland/ Las Islas Malvinas. All places they should never have been to become "heroes"

 

Don't make it political when it's not. It's primarily about the hundreds of thousands of allied soldiers who died in the biggest wars to shape the modern world, for the better. At my old school they had war plaques to remember the hundreds killed, just think about that - schoolboys ffs, not even out of their teens.

It's a simple gesture to simply remember the many that died so that we could live the life we lead today and live in the tolerant and free country that the UK is. There's no more to it.

 

FFS

 

I'm not the one who politicised it, your government did.

Are you in the forces ? Do you consider yourself a hero ?

I sell dogs to a former RAF dog handler based outside Folkestone and he is embarrassed by it all as are many of his comrades his words not mine.

 

I'm not quite sure what your argument is: that in your view the poppy has become politicised or that the underlying reasons for it are wrong?

 

They are victims not heroes. That is why poppy day is twisted. Cameron wears a poppy.. part of the elite that sent young men to die for their own interests.

Poppy day is about glorifying war and the victims who died, the victims being civilians and the soldiers.
How many of the Royal family died during WWI and WWII fighting, or the ruling elites, how many lost family who served in the wars.

Dying is for the working class not the ruling class.

Modern military are nothing but careerists. Soldiers join not to be "protecting freedom" or "making the world safe" or any other lofty ideas.


In WWII Poppy day concerning things like Operation Market garden, basically Montgomery sacrificing British lives for his vanity.

Churchill too is guilty of expending many lives. His demand that merchant shipping ram uboats or engaging them rather than surrendering cost many lives and led directly to all the merchant seamen losses there after because prior to that order the Germans were letting merchant and non military ships to surrender and evacuate before sinking ships.

War is a littany of average people's lives being expended in goals of conquest, control or resources except WWI which was a tragedy of mutual support pack dominoes falling in Europe and just one huge waste of lives.

All those elites and their poppies, especially the royals and such, all directly or descendents of people who funded the Nazis rise after WWI ironically and made fortunes on investment returns from the German slave labour in camps.

British and American soldiers in WWII were killed by stuff made and invested in by the rich in the US UK and Europe. German pilots in Africa were drinking coca cola ffs. German tanks had US made parts like ball bearings and such.

History is such a ****ing lie in text books. When you know what the **** really went down poppy day is just a mental trick to glorify the one group of victims of war.

Do the poppies represent the victims of the military, the countless civilians.. nope.

 

Feeling French Sweetie

I bet you've got a little bit of Gallic in your DNA too. My Dad [love him, miss him] hated the French in much the same way you do. His sister traced our family tree as far back as the French settling in Cornwall which is when they came over to this country. His face was a picture.

 

So I take it then that you remember those "victims" in a different way than wearing the poppy? Or do you just take for granted your freedom to spout bullshit freely?

 

Why were the playing the national anthem at a club game? Seems bizarre.

 

They are being portrayed not as victims though are they. That's my point.

I genuinely feel for the guys conscripted against their will and sent to die in foreign countries far removed from familiy and friends.
When they fight, they fight for those around them, not freedom or patriotism.

How many were executed for shell shock, or just being afraid and rightly so.

 

Do you think that people don't understand all of that? You try and portray your thoughts on the ruling classes, politicians and military heirachy as some form of relevaltion. When the reality is that the vast majority understand exactly how it works ffs.

All of which is a complete and utter ****ing irrelevance to the fact that we choose to remember those who paid the ulitmate price for our societys freedom in both World Wars.

Lest we forget.

It seems that doesn't apply to the Irish.

 

"The Irish" again I like that way you try conceal your Irish stereotype crap, it does come about now and then, this is not the first time

You also use the femtard emotional shaming tactic which has nothing to do with logically stating facts and the real reasons for things like poppy day, to create misty eyed romanticism in place of harsh reality, but then again you are not great with logic, which is funny because you mention it so often

#NoOneRememberstheCivilians

Many of those men were forced against their will to go and be butchered, on all sides not just the Allied side, but the rememberance is not in that context, it is in the "heroes who died for freedom" context which is patently false

 

The Queen laid a wreath for such last time she was in Dublin. I honour the Irish dead (many of them my ancestors). I also wear a poppy for people such as my father and uncle (RAF) and other uncles in the Navy and Merchant Marine. I'm also conscious that armed forces massacred innocents at Peterloo and were congratulated by Wellington for doing so. It's a complicated world. I assume you'd support the IRA's struggle through the 70's and 80's (I know many reasonable people, some of them relatives, who do). Do you then endorse the outright murder of Tim Parry? My father and uncle fought the Nazi tide when it was at its strongest and we were alone. Do I support the fact that some of the bombs they dropped murdered innocent German civilians?

As baldrick wisely said, "War's a terrible thing, d'ring".

 

Criticising poppy day has nothing to do with remembering those who died. Clearly you don't understand what you are talking about, because you cannot seem to separate the two.


If being "irish" is anything it's at least realising that going about the world killing millions of civilians and soldiers and invading your neighbours are not good ideas.

 

The remembrance is to those that sacrificed their lives for our continued freedom to do and say what the **** we want.

You think the government has an agenda? Shout all about it. Think the poppy is a joke? have at it. Want to marry a guy? sure thing. Want to pray to whichever god you want to? not a problem.

People take freedom, tolerance and respect for granted in this country. Everything comes at a price, but remember that it wasn't us who had to pay the bill.

 

Given who the thread is about, your comments on it and you're Irish as is Hash and you're both arguing against the principle of Poppy day and remembrance then, my comment on your nationalilty is perfectly relevant. Don't try and twist it into something it wasn't, by implying some racial undertone.

Misty eyed romanticism? What a pile of insulting pathetic ****e. It's taking a few minutes to remember those who gave their lives so we could remain free, it doesn't nee any further explanation or justification.

 

That is utter nonsense, it's been a while since I was part of the whole thing but I still know many ex and current members of the armed forces and believe me whether right or wrong people do not join the armed forces with only a career in mind, many join to make a difference and are quite prepared to put their lives on the line for what they believe.

There will be difference in opinion as to whether these people are right or wrong in their beliefs but it takes a certain amount of courage to walk that walk and those people deserve respect.

 

Donga dont be getting silly. Of course i dont condone the murder of Tim Parry or any other innocent on both sides.

Like 14 year old Anette McGavigan shot in the back of the head by a British soldier. Or Desmond Healey 14 years old when shot dead by the paras in Belfast. Frank Rowntree 11 shot dead by the British Army's Royal Anglian Regiment.

That's just the tip of the iceberg. If ye can't see why some Irish people can't bring themselves to honour British forces then ye are blind.

 

Luv serious question for a minute , do you consider yourself a hero or any you served with heroes ?

 

forgive me if i'm wrong but..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembrance_Day#Ireland

just a thought...