Jake the Square peg

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perrymanlegend

perrymanlegend

Well-Known Member
Mar 17, 2011
2,947
518
113
Sydney,Australia
First new article for a while.
But after last night's near catastrophe needed to discuss some stuff.
Jake Livermore - what at the moment does he bring to the team?
As others have mentioned he is more effective when he comes on as a late sub, but lately for some reason AVB has deemed to start him.
Now his position as I think is more of a defensive central midfield,but he seems to be the one that replaces Lennon when he cannot play,why- he's not a direct replacement!
Don't get me wrong he's an Ok player,but as we all know he was on the verge of going to QPR on loan until Sandro got injured and he stayed.One my Spurs workmates said to me today whenever he starts we never win, I think he's right.
He looks like a square peg in a round hole- right player wrong position.
Thoughts?
 
Jakes a top lad, yet aside from his early performances, as a player he has gone backwards and is only in the team for his engine, as he is a runner, leaving huge gaps in midfield and has a very poor first touch.

Although I don't want to get on his case too much, as i know how much he loves the club and it can be unfair to slate the guy when the manager picks him, as he is trying his best out there, so questions need to asked what Avb sees in the guy, to the point he offers him more chances then Carroll (who is a superb talent) and a player like Townsend (who gets sent out on loan).

Possibly Jake needs a move, to be playing 1st team football each week, so he learns and improves, but right now I always believe we're in for a long hard afternoon when he starts.
 
A good player and definitely of premiership quality, but not top 4, 5 or 6.
He doesn't suit AVB's style of play. His feet aren't quick enough and he's no where near as good in his position as 2 other players we already have. There's such a massive difference and it shows.
He tries hard and I do applaud his effort, but we're developing in a direction that heisn't following as it doesn't suit him IMO.

Perhaps THFC6061 will be able to produce some stats for this season that also show our results when Livermore has played. maybe one where he's partnered parker, too?
 
What Roo says for me. Good player, useful from bench but not good enough to be a starter for us, at the moment! I still believe he can improve. He's young and players are breaking through later and later nowadays.
Doesn't really have a position. He's not a proper DM like Parker. If he wants to be he needs to be more terrier-like. He's also not creative, so doesn't fit there either. He's a bit like O'Hara, one who _could_ be a good player, but needs to find himself to realise that.
 
I said after the Liverpool game that I couldn't stand watching Jake and Scott taking it in turns to get forward and open things up, neither is suited to that role but they both act a bit Roy of the Rovers at times running forward thinking it's their time to shine. Sandro's injury was disappointing for many bigger reasons but Livermore not getting to go out on loan was unfortunate as he really could've benefitted from it as he starts to find his style in the Premier League.

Ultimately I think it's harsh to judge Livermore too much on his performances this season, he's always being played alongside another DM which is a tactic that's flawed and AVB really needs to wake up to.
 
I thought I saw glimpses of a good player last season, I just recall a little cluster of games he played and looked tidy enough, and I thought he may be on an upward surge, but as pointed has appeared to go backwards. Is that the case or was what I saw first a purple patch and now we're seeing the norm. I think what we're all scared to say is, good player, but not good enough for us 'at the level we're at', and certainly for me now, the next level we're trying to reach.

He is not the only youngster we should apply this too either. Actually I'm not going there, the defence of youngsters is far too vociferous on here, but let me say this, its a fact of football that only a very select one or two make it through at top clubs, a lot of the youngsters being drooled over are not going to make it here. That doesn't mean I'd love nothing more than a group come through like Uniteds clique of Becks, Scholes, Neville etc, its rare though.
 
It's fair to say that most view him as a good bench player.
Perhaps SC can enlighten us as to why he has gone down so quickly.
Last season he was used as a defender in some cup matches, could it be that might be his future position but not with us.
 
I think that Livermore's probably good enough to become a utility player for us and his heart's definitely in it, but he's often picked alongside a player who doesn't complement him at all.
If Parker runs out of steam, then I think that he could easily come on to replace him, but picking them together's just pointless.
 
As has been said, he has a great heart & will run all day for you. However, I just feel that if we aspire to be CL material, players of his ability are just not good enough.

I'm sure the guy doesn't want to spend his entire career sitting on a bench, so it's probably best that he moves on.
 
NowsufferinginSpain said:
As has been said, he has a great heart & will run all day for you. However, I just feel that if we aspire to be CL material, players of his ability are just not good enough.

I'm sure the guy doesn't want to spend his entire career sitting on a bench, so it's probably best that he moves on.
Click to expand...

I agree, I can't see one club around us wanting him as their back-up DM. Without being harsh thats how it is.
 
notsosmartspur said:
I thought I saw glimpses of a good player last season, I just recall a little cluster of games he played and looked tidy enough, and I thought he may be on an upward surge, but as pointed has appeared to go backwards. Is that the case or was what I saw first a purple patch and now we're seeing the norm. I think what we're all scared to say is, good player, but not good enough for us 'at the level we're at', and certainly for me now, the next level we're trying to reach.

He is not the only youngster we should apply this too either. Actually I'm not going there, the defence of youngsters is far too vociferous on here, but let me say this, its a fact of football that only a very select one or two make it through at top clubs, a lot of the youngsters being drooled over are not going to make it here. That doesn't mean I'd love nothing more than a group come through like Uniteds clique of Becks, Scholes, Neville etc, its rare though.
Click to expand...

"the defence of youngsters is far too vociferous on here"

I read this 10 minutes ago and promised myself I wouldn't bite, but sod it, here I am.

Firstly, I don't agree with this statement, although if it really is correct, then it's because some of us do retain some faith in our youth structure. Furthermore, there is no "drooling" as such, merely a view that we do have some players who look capable of making it here. No-one as far as I am aware, has ever denied how much the odds are stacked against a young player, but with our new academy facilities and a sturdy infra-structure beneath the first team, I for one, happen to feel we are doing all we can to reduce these long odds of a young player coming through.

I also have belief in our academy staff and although Inglethorpe will be a difficult act to follow, I am sure his good work will be continued by others.

To progress within the game, a young player does need to show improvement every year and whilst the vast majority do reach their own summit and still fall short of the standard required, that doesn't mean they can't make a decent living out of the game at a lower level. Yes, there are a lot of ex-Spurs lads playing at lower levels, and so it would be naive to think we know all the answers. We don't, but we are creating a top working environment at the new training centre and I have every reason to believe we are already seeing the benefits and will continue to do so.

Apologies for being so "vociferous" about something I believe in:smiley:
 
I think he is a great back up player.

People underestimate the need for players like him.
Young, willing, probably on low wages and loves the club. If he is happy to admit he will not be ousting Sandro of Parker any time soon then everyone is happy.

He may have failed to shine lately, but that is not really his fault. I'd prefer him to Thud who was played in his favourite position and has been terrible, or Jenas who was completely anonymous in recent years.

Play him as our last 10min sub, and if Parker/Sandro are injured, tired or suspended and he can do a job.

This is really not an area we are stuggling in, as wingers and strikers are more important.
 
It's a pity because he loves the club so much, but I think a loan would suit everyone. In retrospect it certainly looks like a poor decision to loan Townsend and keep Jake, but, never fear! We almost loaned Gylfi!<yikes>
 
O.Spurcat said:
"the defence of youngsters is far too vociferous on here"

I read this 10 minutes ago and promised myself I wouldn't bite, but sod it, here I am.

Firstly, I don't agree with this statement, although if it really is correct, then it's because some of us do retain some faith in our youth structure. Furthermore, there is no "drooling" as such, merely a view that we do have some players who look capable of making it here. No-one as far as I am aware, has ever denied how much the odds are stacked against a young player, but with our new academy facilities and a sturdy infra-structure beneath the first team, I for one, happen to feel we are doing all we can to reduce these long odds of a young player coming through.

I also have belief in our academy staff and although Inglethorpe will be a difficult act to follow, I am sure his good work will be continued by others.

To progress within the game, a young player does need to show improvement every year and whilst the vast majority do reach their own summit and still fall short of the standard required, that doesn't mean they can't make a decent living out of the game at a lower level. Yes, there are a lot of ex-Spurs lads playing at lower levels, and so it would be naive to think we know all the answers. We don't, but we are creating a top working environment at the new training centre and I have every reason to believe we are already seeing the benefits and will continue to do so.

Apologies for being so "vociferous" about something I believe in:smiley:
Click to expand...

If you feel this is directed solely at you for some reason the apologies are all mine, nobody in particular was in my head, it was a general and fairly accurate comment, nothing more. I can see the word drooled was a poor choice now, changing the complexion of my post. I believe in your mantra too, but like you again, I can see how difficult it is for them to make it, particularly at the parent club. Surely my last comment shows I'm not against it, I'm just being realistic about things as they are. As and when or if things change obviously my view would too, but for now what seems like harsh calls have to made, for the players career benefit not just THFC. In a way it irks me people suggesting a good little player be stuck on our bench, waiting to 'do a job', why? I'd rather see them play well elsewhere more regular. Its a tough subject, but not one to fall out over surely. :) <ok>

If this is tosh, I'm happy with that...as long as its not cack! <laugh>
 
I agree. There's nothing better than to see exceptional young talent developed through your own ranks. However, I can only go on the evidence of what I have seen. On that evidence, so far, Livermore is not up to the standard of player that a team who aspire to be CL regulars needs.
 
this isn't just a Spurs problem though. Which of the top clubs have any such players?
Man Utd - bought in jones, rafael, etc etc. Would you want Welbeck? Hmmm
Man City - do they have any yoof players?
Spurs - Livermore/Caulker knocking on the door
Chelsea - Bertrand? Would you buy him? No.
Arsenal - Wilshere, best example yet
 
Spurm said:
this isn't just a Spurs problem though. Which of the top clubs have any such players?
Man Utd - bought in jones, rafael, etc etc. Would you want Welbeck? Hmmm
Man City - do they have any yoof players?
Spurs - Livermore/Caulker knocking on the door
Chelsea - Bertrand? Would you buy him? No.
Arsenal - Wilshere, best example yet
Click to expand...

I'd take Welbeck in a heartbeat. We've got two strikers and he'd probably have played about half of our games this season.
City were producing players prior to the cash injection, but that's been shelved, by the looks of things.

Chelsea's youth system's had a few problems with twatty players, according to some season ticket holders that I know.
There were a group of them that were due to be given a chance to push for a place and they were highly rated, but they all started taking the piss on contracts.
That's why they've got something like 20 players out on loan.
 
PleaseNotPoll said:
I'd take Welbeck in a heartbeat. We've got two strikers and he'd probably have played about half of our games this season.
City were producing players prior to the cash injection, but that's been shelved, by the looks of things.

Chelsea's youth system's had a few problems with twatty players, according to some season ticket holders that I know.
There were a group of them that were due to be given a chance to push for a place and they were highly rated, but they all started taking the piss on contracts.
That's why they've got something like 20 players out on loan.
Click to expand...

With the summer coming up, would you really be happy if we signed Welbeck and no other striker? I don't rate him.
 
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