I don't want this to be seen as a personal attack on Kempy but that sort of attitude is fairly typical of "Self made men". I had one similar guy work for me and helped him start up on his own and as soon as he was making more than he had been on as a wage earner he started this sort of "I'm a businessman " thing. I only ever employed about six people and never really regarded myself as other than working class. I think people who have been poor get a bit carried away as soon as they earn a few bob and want to start lording it. It's an insecurity thing basically. I spend nowhere near £20k. I have to buy some socks today because I have run out. When I counted up I only had nine (4.5 pairs) so I have some sympathy with the benefits ceiling. What I don't agree with is low waged poor having their tax credits taken away.
Fair enough. I used to work on the fairground when I was 15 for a pittance and know what it's like to live hand to mouth, trust me. I earn quite a lot, I'm not going to apologise for it, I've built a successful business up and employ 11 other people on proper wages, we help people to get on the housing ladder with interest free loans if we can and pay 3 months sick pay a year. My point is the company tries to have a positive impact on society. I am also out of socks as I have just laid a tiled floor downstairs and got tile adhesive all over my socks and I and struggling to make a matching pair!
Don't see anything wrong with the above. Why can't they pass on their wealth to their children, they are the most important things in their lives. Simply taking money off rich people who have paid their tax already is not the answer to any social ills.
The problem is that we are going to end up with far too wide a wealth gap with many dispossessed,alienated and feeling excluded. That isn't a good way for a society to go at all. Even from the POV of the wealthy it's problematic.
I think your views are to idealistic if I'm being completely honest and also very, very left. It's nice, and the right thing to do to try and help people but the system needs people who work to put money in to help the less fortunate. In my view the benefit system has gotten out of control in the past and it is now being rebalanced and I'm really happy people who want to further themselves will be paid better. In my past I have been the recipient of tax credits and it did help to a degree but I was glad to get to the point where I no longer needed them and could support my family. Had lots of bad jobs and almost went bankrupt along the way but got there in the end. These days you have people who base their whole existence around trying to play the system and have loads of kids that they cannot support. I am glad that this is being addressed and to be honest it is long overdue.
Except a lot of rich people DON'T pay what they ought to technically because they can afford accountants and other creative tax avoidance schemes. I used to work at Barclays financial services, there was one entire floor of staff employed to do nothing but push money around to minimise tax exposure for those who can afford them. I worked on the trading floor (only as a low paid pleb)
Ok think of it this way you borrow £100 from say Wonga, you're due to payback say £200. On the repayment date you've lost your job so they add on £20 every day that it's late. How much "should" you have to payback. Obviously it's the contracted rates you agreed to but you now can't afford it. Yes it's a rubbish comparison for the many obvious reasons but it's the best I could think of and I've got a migraine. Greece's problems obviously stem from the fact they don't control their own currency, if they did they wouldn't be in half the mess they're in. Tbh best thing for Greece in the long run would be to bail out of the Euro they can see their currency tumble against the euro initially then watch the tourists flock to the place for ultra cheap holidays. Austerity isn't really the answer but Greece is a rubbish comparison for austerity vs spending because it's crazy economics & corruption that have screwed Greece up, they consistently fail to enforce tax laws, crazy retirement, hugely over staffed public services etc etc. Greece don't need austerity they need to completely restructure their government and civil service & cut out the corruption. It's just hilarious when Greece is held up as an example of why the UK needs austerity.
It's funny how different people see things. I see Greece as a great example of why we need to live within our means.
I believe in wealth creation, investment in business being rewarded, employees being paid fairly as remuneration and all of the above paying their dues as well as the company itself. For those unable to work or the elderly, there should be welfare to assist them from the taxes of the aforementioned. Where our and the capitalist system generally has gone wrong is a combination of the following. 1. Wealthy people employing accountants whose job it is to ensure that the rich individual pays as little or ideally no tax at all. 2. Companies being registered so that they pay little or no tax in the country where their money has been made. 3. The overpayment of benefits to individuals who could and should work but who have largely chosen not to. If the above were corrected then the UK would be more prosperous and more at peace with itself.
Agree wholeheartedly with that Thurnby the whole system is corrupt from top to bottom. From the government of the day whether it be Conservative, Labour or Coalition to Big Business, Police and all the way down to those at the bottom of the pile. As you say the most powerful will try to avoid paying little or no tax and there are those at the foot of the pile that will do whatever it takes to avoid work and think its their right to a free lunch with the likes of you and me paying for it. Yes there are those who genuinely deserve and are entitled to as much help as possible, but the great unwashed need a kick up the 'arris and should have nothing given to them bar the bare minimum and I know this will go down like a lead balloon with most on here, but they should be made to do community work for their benefits if they're out of work for more than 12 months or have them taken away completely. And another thing, there's a factory up the road from where I work who employ no-one but Eastern Europeans when we are paying out welfare to indigenous citizens.
On point 2 Thurnby, I think that's part of the aim of the new minimum or living wage. If you can't tax a company's profits, make them pay more in wages and then tax those. Although I suspect it screws over anyone who isn't a multinational hiding profits offshore. So hardly perfect.
Yes, for an example we have to have to start the new government pension thing in March and even though most of the people earn more than £9 an hour already think we may also have to pay more in wages slightly. Then there's the increase in dividend tax. I think the pension is a good idea though otherwise people may have nothing when they get to retirement as there probably will not be a state pension by then. Then there's the cut in corporation tax which will help a bit. It was really mixed for the company but overall I think good for working people and people who want to get on in life.
The living wage is a good idea but I am guessing that there are tens of thousands of small businesses that cannot afford to pay it. Take for example pubs. Many tenant landlords are in hock to the management companies and struggle to make the minimum wage themselves. The pub where I occasionally watch football has a tenant and he already works 60 hours a week,as does his wife. Last year he reckons they made £20k between them,call that £26k as they have living accommodation included. That is still 3000 hours work for £13k each..£4.25 an hour.
Pubs are closing because of the price of alcohol. A night out at the pub for two with say four drinks each is going to cost circa £30 and a darn site more in the Capital. It doesn't end there either once you factor in possibly something to eat and perhaps a taxi. I drink at home now because its a fraction of the cost in fact I can't remember the last time I went to a pub can't afford it
Your costings are fairly accurate and I do still enjoy a night out in a pub at least once a month, though there may come a time when it is a once every other month activity. Judging by the number of people I see whenever I am in the pub, it's still popular for a night out for all ages.
Pubs just don't feature in my life at all. Can't remember I went to one. I like a drink but it always seems like to much aggravation to get into the city and back. Went to the barford festival yesterday though. I have mixed feelings on that. It was £20 for a family of 4 to get in. Except for the live music there wasn't much else included I could see. The beers were nice (real ale) and £3 a pint. Not too bad I thought. If you have 2 kids who want to go on bouncy castles, face painting, eat food etc you need about £100 for the day! And cash to as there is no options for cards. Village fetes have moved on haven't they!
I think that probelm has to be tackled head on DH. 'Tinkering' abou with wages hardly touches the sides and the Googles, Amazons and Apples of this World should be made to pay the correct, principled amount. They print money virtually at our expense and are a total disgrace. They represent the face of capitalism that everybody hates and undermines the decent.
