I don't always agree with ILD but he has raised a very valid point. Stats might not tell the full story but they have to give a good impression. We have scored less and conceded more than at this time last year, we have less points and are lower in the league than at this time last year and last week reached the magic mark of not getting a shot on or off target all game. On what measure are we better and making progress over last year?
I guess that answers your question. Also, other than the Liverpool and ManUre games this year, we haven't lost heavily, but rather by 1 goal.
The first year you are on a high from promotion and can ride that wave. The second year is always more difficult (hence "second season syndrome") you aren't the surprise package anymore, playing the big boys has become the norm and a certain amount of the crowd will start gettin on your back want more. This creates a lot more pressure. We have felt the pressure this year no doubt, but we will survive and we will grow and Hughton is the man to grow a team. Someone said to me recently "would you have lambert back" I said "yes, in 30 years when we are bottom of league one again" lambert is the special forces, parachuted in to save the day. Hughton is a peacekeeper, not as exciting but a role that leads to growth. We just need to ride this season out and keep everything in context. Some fans are lose their minds every time there is the slightest of bumps in the road. It is frankly pathetic and so annoying.
can't really add to what beefy says above - absolutely 100% bang on the money. we are having another great season in what could potentially have been a very turbulent year having lost a great manager, a patchy squad (i think that's fair - there are still major weaknesses in it) and little resources. one thing i will say, which i do find somewhat surprising, is that it does seem that the fans who show the most naivity or impatience in our current situation appear to be the more mature among us (i hope nobody takes offence to that). you'd think they'd be the ones who have seen it all before and know how to be patient...
I'm a lot more comfortable with the defence than last season. It's better and a lot more settled as we haven't got defenders getting injured every other week or defenders being shifted around. With the current back four being settled a partnership can be created between Bassong and Turner, Garrido and Bassong, and Turner and R Martin. Communication between the defenders improves the more they play together and the more they understand how the other defender plays. We have a lot more clean sheets this season as well, even with our second choice 'keeper. Bunn's slowly improved. His command of the box and communication with the defence has vastly improved and I bet he's enjoying this role that he's been thrown into. I even heard a VERY loud shout from Bunn the other week when he called for a ball to be left, from the N and P. A very clear sign he is improving. You're absolutely right about how stats can be twisted or even ignored. Prior to the Everton game there was a lot of talk about how we hadn't won a game in a certain amount of time. However, we were also unbeaten in a certain number of games. These two stats suggest completely different things yet they can be used, ignored or twisted to say completely different things. Take, for example, the United v Real Madrid game. It was said that this was United's first defeat at Old Trafford in a knockout round of the Champions League since (I think) 2005. There are so many things that this could suggest, good or bad. It could suggest that while they have been brilliant at home, they have been poor away so haven't done very well in the Champions League, losing away every year and so getting knocked out in the first round of the knock out stages of the Champions League ever since. It could also suggest that United have ripped apart teams in the Champions League every year and therefore reached the Champions League final every year. There are so many possible variations of a simple stat.
... i believe that Spurs and certainly Swansea have also failed to attract a penalty kick this season so far. so, no, not on the verge of a solo record.
Interesting stats ILD, but I have to agree with most people here. If you want to know which defence is better just use your eyes. It is clear that we are defending a lot better this year than last. if you've watched enough matches, as I'm sure you have, you should know that.
Yes, if you put last year's defence in place of this year's defence in many of the situations the defence has faced this this season I think the goals against column would be a lot worse.
On a similar vein, I can't believe how much Russell Martin has improved this season. Yes, he is arguably no better than Whittaker, but we were debating around this time last year about whether he could only play at centre-back. I think he's been brilliant at right-back so far this season.
One comparison which nobody has mentioned is our stats this season v Aston Villa's. I'd say, man for man, Villa have better forward players than us, equally good midfield players, less good defenders. Here are Villa's stats after 28 games: P28 W5 D9 L14 GD -26 Points 24 Their manager is Paul Lambert, and they play "the Lambert way".
I am not suggesting that Hughton has done a bad job - in fact I think he has done a brilliant job. At the beginning of the season I suspected that we might threaten Derby's record for the lowest points total but Hughton's signings and tactics have made that prediction seem foolish. What I am disputing is that we have made the sort of progress from last year that some people are suggesting and the stats support that as ILD has pointed out. The main arguement appears to be a comparison of clean sheets. What about comparing the clean sheets at the other end compared to last year? If you play 2 defensive midfielders you will concede less but is that progress if the end result is more goals conceded and less scored? Last week we tried to ' park the bus ' and when that failed had no Plan B. In 90mins no shots on or off target - is that progress? If Lambert had stayed I think we would probably be in a worse position mainly because he would not have signed Bassong but as much as I admire the work Hughton has done I still cannot see that we are better off than last year.
I think most people were expecting the worst this season. Early in the season I was talking about the 7 year plan and the fact that the board anticipated at lerast one relegation as we moved to premiership stability. We are exceeding our expectations for the season - most post posters were hoping for 17th at best when considering the season. When we have our preferred back 4 playing the defence has improved. But at the other end we have struggled. Hughton recognises this and made some ambitious enquiries during the window that were not successful. I fully expect him to strengthen the forward line over the Summer with an uplift in our scoring. When you look at how Newcastle and Birmingham played under him you can see he is not a natural Goerge Graham, grind out the 1-0 wins type of manager. .
People were expecting worse but how can you ever think that we would threaten that record? That's foolish in itself even before seeing Hughton's signings and tactics!
Five ways in which we are better off than last year: 1. We have a manager prepared to commit himself to our club, bringing a stability that was previously lacking. As a result, the board can have more confidence about committing substantial funds on and off the field. 2. We have Garrido, Bassong Turner, Whittaker, Snodgrass, Becchio, Kamara and Bunn. 3. We are no longer a team for whom the best form of defence is attack, which is essential if we are to establish ourselves in the Premier League. (Our past success in this league was always based on sound defence guided by managers who understood defending.) 4. We have proper cover in nearly all positions, so injuries do not involve as much makeshift reshuffling and square pegs in round holes. 5. We are heading with a degree of confidence towards a third consecutive season in the top flight, rather than looking forward with trepidation to what the next season might bring.
Really? Look at the results after 7 games before Bassong and Turner ( remember the people who thought he was the worst player ever to wear a Norwich shirt ) had settled in and CH switched to 2 defensive midfielders. 3 points from 7 games and 17 goals conceded. Can you really imagine what would have happened to us if Bassong had picked up a serious injury in the 7th game and been out as long as Ruddy? As I have previously said Hughton has done a brilliant job but I really cannot see the justification in the claims that we have progressed since last year.
1950 - we are a realtively small club in the PL with a comparitively weak squad - we do not have the luxury of having top quality internationals on the bench and so we are, like the other clubs of our size in the PL, vulnerable to injuries to any key player. This is why the likes of Norwich are always at risk of going on a really poor run - if we have two or three first teamers out we are seriously weakened - if we have no Ruddy, Holt or Bassong then whilst we have willing and able replacements it is going to have a much more significant effect on us than the like of Man U losing RvP and bringing on Rooney or replacing Vidic with Jonny Evans or DeGea with Lindergard. To just look at the stats in isolation is misleading although I agree that to ignore them is equally misleading. Personally I do think that we have made progress this season despite the stats. I don't think that anyone would argue that our squad is not stronger than last year and we definietly have more quality in the first team with Snod/Bassong/Turner/Garrido/Tetty all replacing players of lesser ability. I don't think that we have had to let a player go who CH wanted to keep and I am sure that by keeping us in the PL this season funds will be generated to strengthen the squad again in the summer. Maybe the progress we have made is trading defensive solidity and maintaining PL status for entertainment but I reckon that this is the only way we can continue to develop as a club and if I have to watch a few dull matches for the next couple of years which allow the team to be strengthened and the stadium expanded then that is a price worth paying.
I never heard anything about Turner being regarded as one of the worst managers to wear a Norwich shirt, 'm sure you're making that up. Although I agree we would not have done so well this season we still had pretty much all the same players from the previous season. A team with at least one season of Premier League experience on their. It is utterly stupid to compare Norwich at any point over the last two seasons to Derby. From memory they only just made it into the play-offs to get in the Premier League, so it was surprising for everyone, including the club so they weren't as well prepared. They also got relegated in their first season in the Premier League. However, Norwich were building on the success from League 1, the board had a plan and we made it into the the top two early on and maintained that throughout until the end of the season. Lambert bought players who had raw talent to be improved to develop them and the squad for the future. To develop them to compete in the Championship and the Premier League. We are now in our second season in the Premier League after a first successful season. The board brought in a manager who was their and the fan's (for the most part) first choice to continue our 7 year plan in the Premier League. We kept on to our players who did well in the previous season. The first few games doesn't always determine what happens throughout an entire season. The first few games were a chance for the team to settle and for Hughton to see what needed to be improved in training and who needed to be brought in. I can't see how a team that has kept most of it's players could suddenly drop so significantly! I'm sorry if you're offended by this but it's an utterly stupid post!
