Cracker- You must be crackers!! we had no chance at the back with bobby imo, i lost count of the times i knew a goal was coming ! normally second half in the last 10 mins with monk and tate flapping away,most teams had him sussed by the second half of the season, its actually no different to him in the Prem with Wigan! in fact its like a mirror image of us at the tailend of our ccc season and remember we had Gomez,scotland and in the first half ferrie bodde so to say "with what sousa had" is a total joke! Sousa was given Beatie and trundle from our chairman for a starters, hardly handy replacements for ace jas and jordi/ferrie Anyway Martinez has shownn his premier league coaching ability hasnt he ?
We couldn't defend with Martinez , we needed at least 2 goals for a win, not taking anything from him at all but don't think we would have gone up with him.
I agree NJ. No way can Bobby get his teams to defend. Sousa helped organise this group defensively at the cost of emasculating us as an attacking force and Rodgers melded it all together with style. Maybe over simplistic but it's accurate.
It's not me whose Crackers over Sousa NJ , but like yours , mine is only an opinion . With Martinez's GD of + 13 compared to Sousa's + 3 , you can't have a go at Martinez's defense without a shot at Sousa's offense of 40 goals , surely.
KJ- The worrying thing for RM is that he either doesnt have a clue or is too head strong to change his method, which ever way it is a bad place to be!! im glad left us when he did now, seeing his blind faith and the same excuses every week for Wigan makes me thank the Work Sousa and Rodgers have done since bobby deserted us
Who brought Beattie , Trundle , Cotterill , Lopez is a matter of speculation . Sitting Britton for important games coming down the stretch looks like a stroke of genius by Sousa in hindsight . And sending Dobbie out on loan when Rodgers used him the next season to perfection seems another moment of brilliance for Paulo . Lets just agree to dis agree & let Ivors great thread push through , last post on this subject for me Cheers NJ
See i find it hard to take you seriously when you talk about "offence" and not attack !! I take your point but whats the point in scoring goals if you conceed more ?? as valley pointed out you always felt 1 goal was never enough for bobby s team, there was always a sinking feeling until we scored a second ! i would rather win 1-0 than lose 3-6 RM had good points but he was a half a job man, still is if you ask me! getting the team to play good attacking football means nothing if you conceed in equal amount ,just ask Blackpool, another model of the martinez game plan. PS please stop calling it offence brezzy it's doing my head in !!
Some very good points of view, and Ivor my thoughts too! Though having watched Rodgers on this mornings show at 11 am, I thought he had the opportunity to explain the heritage and legacy of our game and style, that way he would have shown to me what a humble man he is in the grand scheme of things, but he failed to do that, and for me that is a sad omission on his part. I don't accept that he needed to go as far back as Brian Flynn, or Jacket, because they did not introduce the 'Total Football' , but Martinez did, and to me there is a definite need to show appreciation two both Martinez and Sousa, because they were both very important in getting our style right, without Sousa we would have been nothing more than Wigan on a good day, but Sousa taught our lads how to defend, and that is showing now at this level with the clean sheets we have. I don't think that it is nit picking to say that Rodgers omission of the facts, was poor show, and I hope he addresses this at his next interview, in the mean time, I am always leaving the facts on media and newspaper articles on the web, stating clearly that Rodgers is not the architect of our total football, and that what he has done is perfect what he inherited from Sousa and Martinez, after all that is the truth!.............. please log in to view this image
We had the most clean sheets under Sousa ever in a season, we landed up higher in the league under him, and got more points on the board than under Martinez. You can make stats say almost anything the important ones are points and positions, how you get there is open to debate but it's always the amount of points is the most important.
Between Sousa coming out on the pitch & semi pushing Monk , sitting Britton when it was an obvious personal vendetta , & sending Dobbie out on loan & have Rodgers bring him back & him getting 11 goals & 7 assists in the same League Sousa had him , the next season & causing general discontent on & off the pitch , I have no use for the man . Like I've said before , some day when Sousa & Martinez are retired & sit down to watch a Swan game , Roberto will be the one hoping for us , I believe that wholeheartedly !!
Why does he need to explain anything though?? I never saw Dalgleish thank Roy hodgson for winning the micky mouse cup. I never saw any of the chelsea managers thank mourinho for giving them a team to win trophys I think there is still a danger that we are looking back instead of looking at the present and to the future, should he have given credit to previous managers? IMO no, why should he, it was him who gained the promotion by bringing in scott sinclair and fabio borini, it was his stamp on the team, so martinez and sousa played a part, no different to the examples mentioned above and to every other club that has a new manager. Martin oneill should be thanking steve bruce... the list goes on and on
breezy- you assume it was sousa who sent dobbie on loan, why?? its not quite as clear cut as you think. Sousa wanted to keep him but he wasnt going to be first choice(not for the first time) and wanted reinforcements,the chairman suggested there was no point in paying a top wage to a guy sitting on the bench and a loan move was the best option, a deal was done to put him on loan and use the money else where, things got a bit nasty when sousa was turned down for the striker he wanted to bring in from italy, maybe he would have been the one to score the goals to bring promotion, i saw all those games and there were some real sitters missed by beatie,pintado and others, blaming sousa for everything is up to you but there was alot going on at the club back then and we were still dealing with the fall out from martinez. Rangel and Britton aparently being told by bobby that he was going to sign them didnt help steady the ship either
Under Martinez , 16 Championship teams let in more goals than Swansea . If Martinez's record was poor , then 16 other teams were obismal , obisamal , ... horrible ! He also had the 7th highest goal count !!
How many times did he get promoted out of the ccc ?? I rest my case most of them goals probably came in the second half of the season actually
