Is Brendan Rodgers a big enough name to attract the very best?

[johnsonsbaby]

Better than Mario but still...

You won't like this:

Mario Balotelli appears to drift through games but he's actually working harder than you'd think.

He covered 5.2 miles in his 79 minutes against Chelsea. That is equivalent to 5.8 miles across 90 minutes – which just happens to be the average distance covered by Luis Suarez in games against the top four last season.

Daily Mail.

 

[Flappy Flanagan (JK)]

You won't like this:

Mario Balotelli appears to drift through games but he's actually working harder than you'd think.

He covered 5.2 miles in his 79 minutes against Chelsea. That is equivalent to 5.8 miles across 90 minutes – which just happens to be the average distance covered by Luis Suarez in games against the top four last season.

Daily Mail.

its about quality not quantity.

 

[johnsonsbaby]

its about quality not quantity.

I agree. I think the comparison shows he's at least covering ground which a lot felt he wasn't, and saw him as just standing around. He obviously isn't, looking at the numbers quoted.

And .... I knew Gerrez would appreciate that particular stat

 

[Klopp's Mannschaft]

You won't like this:

Mario Balotelli appears to drift through games but he's actually working harder than you'd think.

He covered 5.2 miles in his 79 minutes against Chelsea. That is equivalent to 5.8 miles across 90 minutes – which just happens to be the average distance covered by Luis Suarez in games against the top four last season.

Daily Mail.

Never knew the hand-to-hip motion covered so much ground

 

[luvgonzo]

You won't like this:

Mario Balotelli appears to drift through games but he's actually working harder than you'd think.

He covered 5.2 miles in his 79 minutes against Chelsea. That is equivalent to 5.8 miles across 90 minutes – which just happens to be the average distance covered by Luis Suarez in games against the top four last season.

Daily Mail.

He did work hard in that game but he has to do that all the time.

 

[DarloGeordie]

You won't like this:

Mario Balotelli appears to drift through games but he's actually working harder than you'd think.

He covered 5.2 miles in his 79 minutes against Chelsea. That is equivalent to 5.8 miles across 90 minutes – which just happens to be the average distance covered by Luis Suarez in games against the top four last season.

Daily Mail.

Badontelli has longer legs.

 

[InBiscanWeTrust]

The best players want to play for the best managers....

Look at Fabregas. He was very negative about Mourinho while at Barca.....but who's he playing for now?

There's no coincidence that since his return to Chelsea, they've bought some monstrous talent at reasonable prices. It's because Mourinho is a proven winner...and that's what players at the very top want.

Granted, location plays a part...but how much really? If Mourinho had rocked up as the boss at Anfield, would we really have any problems signing better players? I doubt it.

So where does that leave us? BR has to be happy buying talent and proving to the world that, given time, he can mould players into even better players and a better team.....and slowly increasing his stock. That's if he's successful of course. We're playing the long game.

Like it or lump it, that's the path, as a club, that we have chosen. Now we have to sit back and accept that we have to sit and wait for the results. We have to accept that even given another £100m to spend, we're unlikely to attract the very best. That BR is not yet (and may never be) a big enough name to attract top talent.

Don't we?

Chelsea, because they were the only club to make an offer and give him money.

I'm not all for this "sign for a manager" thing. Sometimes that's the case (any player that signs for Redknapp, Kranjar, Defoe, etc) but players I'd think look at the club and what they've done.

Also, Rodgers taking u to 2nd last year is obviously going to make people take note.

I think losing Suarez had more of an effect on being able to attract players to be honest.

If you're given the chance to go play alongside the 3rd best player in the world, or Lambert and Balotelli... which would you chose?

 

[johnsonsbaby]

Badontelli has longer legs.

So what you're saying is he's covering the same ground but in fewer steps - which in turn means he doesn't look like he's working as hard because it takes him less effort to do it


... which in turn means Gerrez could be right

 

[InBiscanWeTrust]

Balotelli definitely worked harder against Chelsea and made a few good runs as well.

Small steps but going in right direction.

 

[DarloGeordie]

So what you're saying is he's covering the same ground but in fewer steps - which in turn means he doesn't look like he's working as hard because it takes him less effort to do it


... which in turn means Gerrez could be right

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

The committee is made up of a number of people:

Rodgers
Ayre - to look at the prices/wages
Fallows, Hunter and Edwards - the main scouts/analysts

My understanding is that it is Fallows, Hunter and Edwards who are the ones who present the players. IMO - they are the ones with the expertise.

------------------------------------

Regarding players who choose the city over the club - we need to get over that and wake up to the fact that we're not the club we think we are.

Sigurdson did pick Spurs over us but we must remember, they were in a better position that we were and offered more wages.

Sanchez chose Arsenal over us - yes, we finished 2nd but Arsenal are a more stable club, consistently in the CL and with a well known manager.

We're simply not the big name in world football so buying tier 1 footballers is pretty much out of the question *(combined with FSG's reluctance to pay top wages). Di Maria, Benzema, Higuain etc do not want to join us.

However, that is not an excuse to sign mediocrity and average players like Balotelli, Lallana and Lovren (less so in Lallana's, more with price). We should be in the market for tier 2 players - the ones who have yet reached their peak but with good experience.

Firmino, Shaqiri, Lacazette, Volland etc etc. These are the players who would have really helped us and improved our first XI.

 

[Flappy Flanagan (JK)]

One probably managers have is a lack of spare time for going abroad to watch matches and see players play in person.

Scouts and DoF can watch a player 10 times if they want to but managers are just far to busy.

This means that Rodgers is mostly seeing PL players and is therefor going to know them better and be more sure about signing them, even if the alternative abroad is better.

When Rafa came in he just signed players he knew from Spain (Josemi, Garcia, Alonso, Pellegrino, Ayala). But after a year or so we started seeing more PL players (Crouch, Fowler, Pennant, Bellemy, Benayoun) because those are the players catching his eye. Though he did always keep a good flow of foreign players coming in (Kuyt, Riera, Torres, Babel). A lot of his signings from abroad were not well known ones but generally they were the more successful. Rodgers needs to keep that eye on the other leagues. Rafa never had a DoF.

 

[Treble]

The committee is made up of a number of people:

Rodgers
Ayre - to look at the prices/wages
Fallows, Hunter and Edwards - the main scouts/analysts

My understanding is that it is Fallows, Hunter and Edwards who are the ones who present the players. IMO - they are the ones with the expertise.

------------------------------------

Regarding players who choose the city over the club - we need to get over that and wake up to the fact that we're not the club we think we are.

Sigurdson did pick Spurs over us but we must remember, they were in a better position that we were and offered more wages.

Sanchez chose Arsenal over us - yes, we finished 2nd but Arsenal are a more stable club, consistently in the CL and with a well known manager.

We're simply not the big name in world football so buying tier 1 footballers is pretty much out of the question *(combined with FSG's reluctance to pay top wages). Di Maria, Benzema, Higuain etc do not want to join us.

However, that is not an excuse to sign mediocrity and average players like Balotelli, Lallana and Lovren (less so in Lallana's, more with price). We should be in the market for tier 2 players - the ones who have yet reached their peak but with good experience.

Firmino, Shaqiri, Lacazette, Volland etc etc. These are the players who would have really helped us and improved our first XI.

Disagree, you've been doing that for 2 decades and failing badly when you have. In fact the 3 players you've quoted as unsuitable fit your own description of 2nd tier players. It comes down to the simple fact that Liverpool reached Top 4. You really can't underestimate how important it was to strengthen with a couple of world class players or players close to it. For the sole purpose of consolidating that position as yours for the future.

You see what happens when you don't do that is you go the same way as examples such as Leverkeusen in 2002 or Vilarreal 2006 both of who didn't strengthen after losing their best players and dipped out the CL. The only difference now is that unlike those clubs who can still get back to the CL in their leagues, Liverpool are competing with 5 other teams to do so. You have your foot in the door. You should be looking long term! spending £30-40m on some top players and pay the higher wages. Bcos they will help you get 2/3 seasons in the CL, greater revenue and further great players. On top of that you're planning ahead for a stadium extension so that will support your leveraging now.

 

[jenners04]

Disagree, you've been doing that for 2 decades and failing badly when you have. In fact the 3 players you've quoted as unsuitable fit your own description of 2nd tier players. It comes down to the simple fact that Liverpool reached Top 4. You really can't underestimate how important it was to strengthen with a couple of world class players or players close to it. For the sole purpose of consolidating that position as yours for the future.

You see what happens when you don't do that is you go the same way as examples such as Leverkeusen in 2002 or Vilarreal 2006 both of who didn't strengthen after losing their best players and dipped out the CL. The only difference now is that unlike those clubs who can still get back to the CL in their leagues, Liverpool are competing with 5 other teams to do so. You have your foot in the door. You should be looking long term! spending £30-40m on some top players and pay the higher wages. Bcos they will help you get 2/3 seasons in the CL, greater revenue and further great players. On top of that you're planning ahead for a stadium extension so that will support your leveraging now.

completely agree, but i think the club are trying to do it the long term way, ie youngsters who don't cost much wages wise but will have a good sell on value in the future,whether that plan works long term who knows, see where we are at the end of this season, if we somehow manage to get top 4 end of this season and get cl again, wonder if we will stay with the same attitude of looking for prospects and ignore the big name and wage players, or think did we get lucky with that plan or is it viable long term, or is it just as first season back in cl put a lot off? prob a mix of all them.

obviously wont be such good news for the clubs that can just go out and pay the silly fees and wages if we manage it, but clubs who are not so fortunate to do that may be hoping this plan works, as it gives them hope of emulating it.

Jan window is going to be interesting esp, if apart from chelsea and city, the chasing pack who have all been a shambles so far, are no better come jan window time and need to spend, which ones have the money to change things, or will they all be on a sell to buy first type scenario, could be some good deals to be had.

 

[Germlands Nozzer]

Disagree, you've been doing that for 2 decades and failing badly when you have. In fact the 3 players you've quoted as unsuitable fit your own description of 2nd tier players. It comes down to the simple fact that Liverpool reached Top 4. You really can't underestimate how important it was to strengthen with a couple of world class players or players close to it. For the sole purpose of consolidating that position as yours for the future.

You see what happens when you don't do that is you go the same way as examples such as Leverkeusen in 2002 or Vilarreal 2006 both of who didn't strengthen after losing their best players and dipped out the CL. The only difference now is that unlike those clubs who can still get back to the CL in their leagues, Liverpool are competing with 5 other teams to do so. You have your foot in the door. You should be looking long term! spending £30-40m on some top players and pay the higher wages. Bcos they will help you get 2/3 seasons in the CL, greater revenue and further great players. On top of that you're planning ahead for a stadium extension so that will support your leveraging now.

1) If you can afford it.
2) Depending on how high you go, there is a risk of difficuties arising if you still don't make the CL.
3) Also, if you're changing to do this, watch the other players want pay rises as well.

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

Don't get me wrong - I would love ready made, world class players but we have to be realistic. Why would they come to Liverpool? We cannot pay big fees or big wages combined with the fact that we're still a lightweight on the world stage. We don't have CL consistently, we don't have any stars in the team, we don't have a big name manager or backroom staff.

That is why we need to be targeting tier 2 players because a) they're more affordable and b) they will see Liverpool as a step up in their career (before they inevitably end up at a bigger club.

Mascherano, Alonso, Hyypia, Suarez, Torres etc etc are examples of promising players around the 23-24 mark. Most notably Suarez and Torres had very good reputations around Europe but no one took the risk because they were still raw.

 

[The artist JerryChristmas]

I don't buy the "city" argument too much. It's a combination, perhaps a small percentage is down to manager but mostly it's about wages. Top players go to live in Manchester (even Middlesbrough ffs) as long as they get top money for it.

Our problem is that IMO we've got a manager who can probably get good things out of top players but he just can't sign them. This again brings the idea of a DoF into the equation surely. I'm not even the biggest fan of the idea but Rodgers and his committee sure ain't working well.

 

[Treble]

1) If you can afford it.
2) Depending on how high you go, there is a risk of difficuties arising if you still don't make the CL.
3) Also, if you're changing to do this, watch the other players want pay rises as well.

Don't get me wrong - I would love ready made, world class players but we have to be realistic. Why would they come to Liverpool? We cannot pay big fees or big wages combined with the fact that we're still a lightweight on the world stage. We don't have CL consistently, we don't have any stars in the team, we don't have a big name manager or backroom staff.

That is why we need to be targeting tier 2 players because a) they're more affordable and b) they will see Liverpool as a step up in their career (before they inevitably end up at ay a bigger club.

Mascherano, Alonso, Hyypia, Suarez, Torres etc etc are examples of promising players around the 23-24 mark. Most notably Suarez and Torres had very good reputations around Europe but no one took the risk because they were still raw.

Guys you don't get owt for nowt. Liverpool isn't some tinpot club, you should be aiming higher and that means taking calculated risk. I can't believe you guys have looked at the plethora of underachieving mediocrity you've had don the shirt over a generation, and you're saying "more of the same please". Where's that Einstein quote about insanity that I keep seeing popping up on this forum.

I disagree, Torres wasn't promising, he was recognised as the next big thing. He is exactly the type of player you should be going for now. The equivalent of Sanchez or Costa type signing these days. You got him for a reasonable price at the time thanks to Rafa. Also, doesn't quoting the likes of Torres, Suarez, Mascherano disprove the idea Liverpool can't attract top players. You either need the right manager OR spunk some money. If we look at the money, yeh you may have to up the wages, but that's the reality in the prem for all top 4 clubs these days. I really think you're being unrealistic if you think you can establish yourself in the top 4 on a shoestring budget.

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

Guys you don't get owt for nowt. Liverpool isn't some tinpot club, you should be aiming higher and that means taking calculated risk. I can't believe you guys have looked at the plethora of underachieving mediocrity you've had don the shirt over a generation, and you're saying "more of the same please". Where's that Einstein quote about insanity that I keep seeing popping up on this forum.

I disagree, Torres wasn't promising, he was recognised as the next big thing. He is exactly the type of player you should be going for now. The equivalent of Sanchez or Costa type signing these days. You got him for a reasonable price at the time thanks to Rafa. Also, doesn't quoting the likes of Torres, Suarez, Mascherano disprove the idea Liverpool can't attract top players. You either need the right manager OR spunk some money. If we look at the money, yeh you may have to up the wages, but that's the reality in the prem for all top 4 clubs these days. I really think you're being unrealistic if you think you can establish yourself in the top 4 on a shoestring budget.

I agree with this but must add that winning the CL may have helped with signing those players too though.

 

[Diego]

Guys you don't get owt for nowt. Liverpool isn't some tinpot club, you should be aiming higher and that means taking calculated risk. I can't believe you guys have looked at the plethora of underachieving mediocrity you've had don the shirt over a generation, and you're saying "more of the same please". Where's that Einstein quote about insanity that I keep seeing popping up on this forum.

I disagree, Torres wasn't promising, he was recognised as the next big thing. He is exactly the type of player you should be going for now. The equivalent of Sanchez or Costa type signing these days. You got him for a reasonable price at the time thanks to Rafa. Also, doesn't quoting the likes of Torres, Suarez, Mascherano disprove the idea Liverpool can't attract top players. You either need the right manager OR spunk some money. If we look at the money, yeh you may have to up the wages, but that's the reality in the prem for all top 4 clubs these days. I really think you're being unrealistic if you think you can establish yourself in the top 4 on a shoestring budget.

In all honesty Treble, most supporters trust their manager when it comes to new players. I would imagine very few had heard of Can, Markovich, Mareno or Manquillo when they bought them but trusted Brendans judgement. I knew nothing of Blind or Rojo when we bought them, but they look like they will work out (Blind in particular).