Irish Dominance or English Decline

Discussion in 'Horse Racing' started by rudebwoy, Apr 11, 2021.

  1. rudebwoy

    rudebwoy Well-Known Member

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    There can be little doubt that the inexorable rise of irish bred , owned and trained runners are dominating nh racing in this corner of the world .
    I note some cries for the handicapper to single them out , to allow the inferior uk based animals a chance of major race success , this is childish and missing the real issues .
    Most of those wins were in graded races, handicapping is irrelevant , the real truth is the govt roles in support or lack of in the industry .
    Ireland has better prize money , more investment and a breeding industry second to none , for a small country , they produce the best horses .
    Uk ( mainly english ) racing is a mosh mash of parochialism , an administration that a north korean would recognise , a very incestous training system and antiquated attitudes to boot .
    The writing been on the wall for years , but it’s undeniable the gulf in quality between the two countries racing systems , with the jockey club run by aging blimps , don’t expect any change , just more irish dominance .
     
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  2. Steveo

    Steveo Well-Known Member

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    The UK certainly needs to up its game - what has been striking is how quickly the Irish have achieved complete dominance.
    it has to be a concern because basically what is now being watched week in week out in the UK is now substandard fare.
    one exception though - My Drogo who i think is the best young horse out there!
     
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  3. Mick Malones Mauser

    Mick Malones Mauser Active Member

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    The historic relationship between the 2 islands with all the ups and downs that it has entailed has to be considered when analysing the Irish racehorse dominance .For most of the 20th century Ireland was quite a poor country, ravaged by emigration and lack of opportunities. Racehorses tended to be sold off as yearlings to our nearest and more wealthy neighbour. The legendary duel in the 60s between Arkle and Mill House was portrayed as an Ireland V England competition..Both horses were Irish bred but this time fate had conspired so that Arkle remained in Ireland to be trained. Since then the Irish economy improved and was modernised by outside investment, which combined with clever government incentives to help the bloodstock industry ,have led to these ridiculous levels of success for Irish trainers at major English festivals.Everything is cyclical though
    .
     
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  4. Bustino74

    Bustino74 Thouroughbred Breed Enthusiast

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    While I have no problem with the dominance of the top Irish horses as evidenced by their success in the big three at Cheltenham, I do have a real problem with mopping up most of the handicaps. Come on, the clue is in the name. They are supposed to be weighted to finish equal (and I know that's not possible because of the ups and downs of NH racing) but that isn't happening. The handicappers are getting it wrong for some reason and we need to look at that before challenging probably the more structural problems that cause the dominance of the Irish horses.
     
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  5. stick

    stick Bumper King

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    I think Shiskin might take exception to this post
     
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  6. Steveo

    Steveo Well-Known Member

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    not so young now though is he - he has already won twice at the festival.
    My Drogo has not even got there yet!
     
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  7. NassauBoard

    NassauBoard Well-Known Member

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    only a year older and a lot better too. If we are relying on My Drogo then we are in trouble.
     
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  8. AsymptomaticSuperSpreader

    AsymptomaticSuperSpreader 1 of the top judges in Europe

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    The english celebrate low grade garbage at plumpton and market rasen etc, the points in ireland are higher grade than vast majority of english jump racing which seems to only exist to keep horses from slaughter, no idea how anyone can watch it
     
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  9. stick

    stick Bumper King

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    There is a second and more obvious reason of course. The gambling industry and all it adds to the taxmans coffers.
     
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  10. PNkt

    PNkt Well-Known Member

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    BHA have put out a press release this afternoon on changes to the Jumps weight for age scale agreed jointly between Britain and Ireland. This review is not as a result of recent Irish dominance but has been underway for the last year or so:

    British and Irish authorities agree unified Jumps weight-for-age scale

    13/04/2021 @ 13:00:00

    The British Horseracing Authority (BHA) and Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (IHRB) have today announced a unified Anglo-Irish Jumps weight-for-age (WFA) scale.

    The new scale will come into effect at the beginning of the 2021/22 Jumps season and therefore apply to races staged from 1 May 2021 in Britain and races from 3 May 2021 in Ireland. As such, the changes will not apply during the Punchestown Festival, which runs from 27 April to 1 May.

    The changes, which were approved by the BHA Board and the Board of the IHRB in March, sees Britain’s WFA scale increase and Ireland’s decrease by similar amounts, which in summary will mean:

    • The time at which four-year-old hurdlers in Britain receive an allowance will increase by 2 months at all distances;
    • The time four- and five-year-old hurdlers in Ireland receive an allowance will decrease by 4 months at all distances;
    • The time four- and five-year-old chasers in Britain receive an allowance will remain unchanged at 2m and 2½m but will be extended by one month at 3m;
    • The time four- and five-year-old chasers in Ireland receive an allowance will be decreased by 4 months at all distances;
    • Allowance changes will occur on the monthly basis currently used in Ireland rather than the fortnightly changes used in Britain.
    The agreement of a unified WFA scale follows more than a year of work, led by the BHA’s Head of Handicapping, Dominic Gardiner-Hill, and Andrew Shaw, the IHRB’s Senior Jumps Handicapper. The scale has been developed through detailed data analysis, with a view to providing the most accurate model possible for the different age groups.

    The adjustments have resulted from an ongoing process of review and improvement, which is designed to ensure that handicapping methodologies remain the most suitable based on-up-to date and comprehensive analysis of data and emerging trends. There is also scope for further refinement of the unified Jumps WFA scale, with the collection of combined symmetrical data in both countries – something that had not previously been possible – and a full review every three years.

    Dominic Gardiner-Hill, BHA Head of Handicapping, said:

    “The unifying of the Jumps weight for age scales will address the difference in levels of allowances in Britain and Ireland, which can at certain points of the year vary by up to 5lbs-7lbs. It will also bring Jump racing into line with Flat racing, where the same WFA scale is used across the principal racing nations in Europe.

    “I would like to pay tribute to my colleagues at the BHA and the IHRB for undertaking this comprehensive piece of work, which has at times required a degree of compromise, but has resulted in a mutually agreeable position – demonstrating the importance of ongoing co-operation between British and Irish racing authorities.”

    Andrew Shaw, IHRB Senior Jumps Handicapper, said:

    “Not only is the unification of the British and Irish scales a major step forward, but it also reflects the ever-increasing influence of the young, but more mature French-bred horses whose growing success in Britain and Ireland over the past 15 years has already resulted in changes being made to both of our scales in recent times.”

    Notes to editors:

    1. The new Anglo-Irish Jumps weight-for-age (WFA) scale can be viewed in full here, and allows comparisons with the scales previously used in Britain and Ireland.
     
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  11. QuarterMoonII

    QuarterMoonII Economist

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    Does the dominance of the Irish bred in National Hunt racing also include all those horses with French names that have been snapped up on the continent?

    Many of the Irish owners seem to be British based, surely not having their charges trained in Ireland for financial reasons. If a British owner has a good horse, as far as I am aware there is nothing stopping them running it in more lucrative Irish races.

    In terms of sport generally, horse racing comes considerably further down the pecking order in Britain than Ireland, a country with a twelfth of the population and little competition from the likes of football or cricket for people’s disposable income in their agri-rural economy.

    The way that the fixture list has been butchered over the last decade or so by the British Horseracing Authority has not attracted huge swathes of new racegoers because it was a policy doomed to failure before it even started. Moving many of the feature races to weekends crowded with other sport/social opportunities was short sighted. British National Hunt racing is uncompetitive because there are too many races allowing the better quality horses to avoid each other in a season focussed on Cheltenham, resulting in uninspiring sport.

    The British fixture list under both codes is bloated with low grade racing that exists to boost betting turnover; however, this does mean that the available money is spread more thinly resulting in lower prize money for the major events. Much of the “all weather” fixture list only seems to exist to justify the expense of the facilities as there are very few occasions during the year when conventional turf racing cannot take place and attendances at “all weather” fixtures seem very sparse.
     
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