Irish Derby

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Deleted 1

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Jun 16, 2011
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Does anyone know why the Irish derby is being run this evening rather than either this afternoon or, as was always the case, tomorrow? I'm struggling to see any real logic in it but doubtless there will be a wise man / woman on here who will know. Oh, and I've heard a whisper that Aidan o Brien may just have the winner but please keep that to yourselves.
 
I don't think it's a bad idea to start moving some of the big races to evenings!*

Most things about US racing annoy me, but one thing I do like about there racing, is that they have alot of there big meetings like the Breeders Cup at night. I think it adds to the spectacle of the big races to have them under flood lights:biggrin:*
 
Dan Starkey said:
Really? Does it not attract a big crowd then? I genuinely don't know by the way so I'm not being sarcastic which i know is unusual for me.......
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Not sure, just seen on ATR "The Classic has been moved from its traditional Sunday slot to the last race on Saturday's card at 7.40pm, in the hope that it attracts a bigger crowd."
 
I believe that the Irish Derby was moved to try and attract more viewers as well as a larger crowd. Given that Aidan O’Brien has pretty much farmed the race this century and just five went to post for this year’s renewal, they are probably wasting their time.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that half the problem is that The Curragh is not particularly accessible. Why do they not move the Irish Derby to Ascot – they did it with the English Champion Stakes.

I went to the bookies to watch the race but I would have done that if it had been at four o’clock because I follow racing as a sport before I follow it as a betting medium.
 
It maybe would get more viewers if it wasnt just a joke of a race these days! Prize money all the way down to 6th yet there is only five runners! Pretty sure O'Brien withdrew Imperial Monarch as he was trying to protect camelot as he knew he would hate the ground whereas Imperial Monarch would relish it and would have a major chance of beating Camelot. Thats the only reason for withdrawing him that i can think of......giving the ground as an excuse was just a joke! IM won a derby trial on heavy giving about 8 lengths away by running all the way down the outside! Unless Born To Sea has improved out of all recognition for the trip to 1m4f then i dont think camelot's performance would have been good enough to beat a horse with the class of IM
 
I must admit Brough, I'm scratching my head to think of any other logical explanation. It would have made more sense to have withdrawn Camelot and run Imperial Monarch (being the only horse in the race who would, on form, have been advantaged by the going). I believe that if Camelot had been withdrawn, AOB could have won the race with IM. Was the full extent of the sponsorship dependent on Camelot running, making the decision purely financial? I sincerely hope not.
 
You guys are both right, Camelot is the replacement to Montjeu in the breeding barn, so they want his replacement to have as high a racing reputation as possible.*

I would say with 100% certainty that Imperial Monarch didn't run, just because they were worried he would be a threat to Camelot on that ground.

Camelots class probably got him through, but he did not look to me like he was enjoying the ground. Had there been a decent mudlark in the race I fancy he could have been vulnerable :biggrin:*
 
Imperial Monarch has puss in his foot the day before the race when being re-shoed, its possible if he was 100% Camelot would have been withdrawn and he would have ran.
 
The “puss in the foot” reason might actually be true, but I think there is no question otherwise that Camelot would have been pulled and Imperial Monarch (a proven mudlark) would probably have won easily.

Camelot hung left and impeded Born To Sea at a crucial stage of the runner-up’s challenge, but I do not think that changed the result. Camelot clearly was not enjoying the ground but that may have been the same for the others.

Whilst they are going out of their way to protect Camelot’s unbeaten record, he will definitely avoid the older horses as this year’s other three-year-olds appear to be decidedly ordinary and beating the same trees a couple more times (St Leger and possibly one prep-race) suits Coolmore fine.

It will be interesting to see how Epsom Derby non-stayer Bonfire fares in the Eclipse Stakes. If he can give So You Think a race then maybe the three-year-olds are not all moderate.
 
I read today that Aiden has said that Camelot s the best he has ever had. I find this an astonishing statement that must bring an awful lot into question with regard how they view the racing publics gulability. I Like Coolmore and have loved watching their horses but are we really expected to believe that he is better than for instance...Galilao, Monteju, Rock of Gibralter, Giants Causeway ( i loved that horse), Hawkwing, Dylan Thomas, Rip Van Winkle, Hurricane Run, Duke of Marmalade, George Washington.

I don't wish be picky but he just saw off Born to sea last night who is a listed winner and in our Derby he beat comfortably a group 3 winner. I must make clear he has done all that has been asked but some of those horses must be pacing their boxes if they knew what Aiden had just said.
 
King Shergar said:
I don't think it's a bad idea to start moving some of the big races to evenings!*

Most things about US racing annoy me, but one thing I do like about there racing, is that they have alot of there big meetings like the Breeders Cup at night. I think it adds to the spectacle of the big races to have them under flood lights:biggrin:*
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Shergar I have to disagree. I think it's excellent that the Big Race was moved to evening and also Primetime.

I think that moving Royal Ascot to an evening meeting would be a success. It means that there is a very good chance of attracting a bigger audience because people will be at work. Therefore, it will also mean that it gives people more time to finalise bets. I do agree however that major meetings should not be under floodlights, but here in the UK, the lighter nights during the summer need to be used with great racing and Royal Ascot would be perfect.
 
Bluesky9 said:
I read today that Aiden has said that Camelot s the best he has ever had. I find this an astonishing statement that must bring an awful lot into question with regard how they view the racing publics gulability. I Like Coolmore and have loved watching their horses but are we really expected to believe that he is better than for instance...Galilao, Monteju, Rock of Gibralter, Giants Causeway ( i loved that horse), Hawkwing, Dylan Thomas, Rip Van Winkle, Hurricane Run, Duke of Marmalade, George Washington.

I don't wish be picky but he just saw off Born to sea last night who is a listed winner and in our Derby he beat comfortably a group 3 winner. I must make clear he has done all that has been asked but some of those horses must be pacing their boxes if they knew what Aiden had just said.
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Agreed, it does seem a bit early to come out with statements like that. I hope that doesn't mean we won't see him again. Of course we don't know what AOB has been seeing at home and we can't read anything into that last run other than he still managed to win despite hating the ground. He is such a lovely mover; it's surprising he ran in that ground. I think on a sounder surface BTS would not get anywhere near him.
 
AOB is a joke, he talks complete rubbish most of the time. The majority of things he comes out with are Coolmoore PR stunts.*

Like all that rubbish about him not training SYT properly, right before the horse is about to be packed off to stud.*

It was not an improved effort from SYT in the POW, as he was fully entitled to win aswell as he did on his Champion Stakes form when 2nd to Cirrus Des Aigles over course and distance.*

Even the commentator Jim McGrath feeds the gullible idiots 'this is the real SYT' he said. Hang on a minute it always has been the real SYT, where would Carlton house have been had he competed in last seasons Champion Stakes?*

SYT is a very good horse, is he the superstar he was billed as? No he is not. AOB was just making excuses for the horses defeats by blaming himself.*

He's a company man, and toes the company line with the bosses at Coolmoore who provide him with the best ammunition in the world, as anyone in his position would do.*

Every top class horse he has had has been the best he's ever had, and it's all geared towards making as much money at stud with that horses as there is to make :biggrin:*
 
Bluesky9 said:
I read today that Aiden has said that Camelot s the best he has ever had. I find this an astonishing statement that must bring an awful lot into question with regard how they view the racing publics gulability. I Like Coolmore and have loved watching their horses but are we really expected to believe that he is better than for instance...Galilao, Monteju, Rock of Gibralter, Giants Causeway ( i loved that horse), Hawkwing, Dylan Thomas, Rip Van Winkle, Hurricane Run, Duke of Marmalade, George Washington.

I don't wish be picky but he just saw off Born to sea last night who is a listed winner and in our Derby he beat comfortably a group 3 winner. I must make clear he has done all that has been asked but some of those horses must be pacing their boxes if they knew what Aiden had just said.
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You haven't even mentioned the best of the lot Yeats! I know he was just a cup horse, but to win 4 Ascot gold cups takes some doing, and the last 1 being when he was 8 years old. We seen with *** this year just how difficult it is for a horse to keep coming back year after year and winning such a gruelling race.*

Yeats has a statue in the parade ring at Ascot, and he will always be remembered as the greatest stayer of all time, that's why he should be regarded as AOBs best, as he's had a far bigger impact on the history of racing than any of the others.

The likes of Rock Of Gibralter, Montjeu, Dylan Thomas, Giants Causeway, Galileo etc etc will only ever be remembered as very good horses, not greatest of all time.

If were including both codes in this debate, then Istabraq is the only AOB horse who can be ranked alongside Yeats, as many would say including myself that he was the best 2 mile hurdler of all time :biggrin:
 
Aiden never said the best he has ever had he said he potentially could be the best colt that has come through his hands its not as if he has a potential triple crown winner every year is it???
 
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