Match Day Thread Ipswich v Norwich

[DUNCAN DONUTS]

As a firm , get him out person I would be ******ed to not go back on my sentiments.
Wagner literally saved himself from the chop through results recently.

Long can go he's guff

 

[Robbie BB]

..........very good day at the Dinosaur Park at Lenwade .........

Glad you enjoyed the day Zog. There is a view among younger supporters that the Dinosaur Park is in Carrow Road ..........

 

[SuffolkCanary]

I have a rules related question for anyone that could help me, that I felt was particularly prevalent yesterday.

When does blocking become obstruction or impeding play?

I feel like this is one of those that is down to referee discretion, but I thought it was particularly noticeable yesterday that on most set pieces several Ipswich players were looking the opposite direction from the ball and just holding or “blocking” our attackers. This seemed a dangerous tactic to me as anywhere else on the pitch you would concede a foul for not trying to play the ball. If you watch Rowe’s second goal it is very obvious with Hirst basically wrestling Duffy, who fortunately managed to get to the ball anyway.

 

[RiverEndRick]

Yes, it's also about results, but I don't subscribe to the idea that events off the pitch don't impact what happens on it, implicit in your contrasting fan/club relations with "results on the pitch". IMO events off the pitch were impacting events on it, and that Rob's "turning point" was a direct result of several of those off field issues being resolved.

I wasn't contrasting them, Robbie, I was saying that both were involved, thus the use of 'also'. As you suggest, the club has turned a corner both off and on the pitch and the two are interconnected and bringing a gradual increase in positivity throughout the club and it's supporters.

 

[zogean_king]

I think the next match will be very interesting indeed, Huddersfield are scrapping for their lives and have been drawing a lot recently. I expect they will park the bus, it will be interesting to see how we are mentally if we don't score early after spending so much mental energy on the Ipswich game

 

[SuffolkCanary]

I think the next match will be very interesting indeed, Huddersfield are scrapping for their lives and have been drawing a lot recently. I expect they will park the bus, it will be interesting to see how we are mentally if we don't score early after spending so much mental energy on the Ipswich game

They scraped another draw in their last game with a last minute penalty

 

[Robbie BB]

I wasn't contrasting them, Robbie, I was saying that both were involved, thus the use of 'also'.

"Two nations divided by a common language" (Winston Churchill)

 

[DUNCAN DONUTS]

https://x.com/NorwichCityFC/status/1737510904969732608?s=20

 

[Robbie BB]

Ben Lee's analysis of the game:
https://ncfcanalysis1.wixsite.com/ncfcanalysis/post/ipswich-vs-norwich

In short: out-thought and outplayed. The first is why I think Wagner will not survive. It's just a question of when Knapper's target replacement becomes available. Could be January, but more likely the summer IMO.

 

[Bure budgie]

Ben Lee's analysis of the game:
https://ncfcanalysis1.wixsite.com/ncfcanalysis/post/ipswich-vs-norwich

In short: out-thought and outplayed. The first is why I think Wagner will not survive. It's just a question of when Knapper's target replacement becomes available. Could be January, but more likely the summer IMO.

And who would you like to see managing at Carrow Rd?

 

[Robbie BB]

And who would you like to see managing at Carrow Rd?

Everything I've heard so far from Knapper has been encouraging and made sense; I'm sure he already has a list, and I'd expect it to feature names we're not familiar with.

 

[RiverEndRick]

Ben Lee's analysis of the game:
https://ncfcanalysis1.wixsite.com/ncfcanalysis/post/ipswich-vs-norwich

In short: out-thought and outplayed. The first is why I think Wagner will not survive. It's just a question of when Knapper's target replacement becomes available. Could be January, but more likely the summer IMO.

Ben's view is more subtle than that:

"Ultimately, Ipswich’s processes were better than Norwich’s, but the latter dealt with key moments more effectively. Processes create moments, but moments decide games."

This is how I see it as well. Ipswich had to come from behind to draw a match which, on paper, they should have won. Their failure to do so was down to those crucial key moments which produced the goals. Games are won or lost by goals, not processes.

There were also other factors involved; Ipswich were the home team and were missing 1 player - we were missing 6 players including our top two strikers. If Ipswich can continue to avoid injuries for the rest of the season, they have a good chance of a top two finish. If they can't, their chances could change. We now have all of our injured players returning to training and our chances could also change. There's a long way to go before anything is decided, including Wagner's future, which will be determined by the Board, not Knapper on his own.

 

[1950canary]

I have a rules related question for anyone that could help me, that I felt was particularly prevalent yesterday.

When does blocking become obstruction or impeding play?

I feel like this is one of those that is down to referee discretion, but I thought it was particularly noticeable yesterday that on most set pieces several Ipswich players were looking the opposite direction from the ball and just holding or “blocking” our attackers. This seemed a dangerous tactic to me as anywhere else on the pitch you would concede a foul for not trying to play the ball. If you watch Rowe’s second goal it is very obvious with Hirst basically wrestling Duffy, who fortunately managed to get to the ball anyway.

My question would go even further - what are the rules? When I first went to Carrow Road 74 years ago the rules were clear and simple. If, when the ball is played, there are 2 players between you and the goal line you are onside even if one of the players was flat our injured. Now? If you stuck out your hand to stop the ball going past you it was handball. Now? If you stepped in front of a player without playing the ball it was obstruction. Now? Apparently so called blocking is not obstruction - why? If you leap about like a demented frog to prevent a player getting to the ball when it is running out for a throw in or goal kick it is not obstruction - why? If you clamp your arms against your side with your thumbs up your bum and the ball hits your elbow it is handball - why? Decisions are not overturned unless the error is clear and obvious but if, when they draw the lines your cock is offside the goal is disallowed - why? How is that clear and obvious? Answers on a postcard please!!

 

[1950canary]

Having asked the question can I suggest an answer. Go back to the rules as they were in 1950, scrap VAR, accept that we are all human and make mistakes and, most important of all - sack the twats who keep buggering about with the Laws Of The Game!!

 

[DUNCAN DONUTS]

Having asked the question can I suggest an answer. Go back to the rules as they were in 1950, scrap VAR, accept that we are all human and make mistakes and, most important of all - sack the twats who keep buggering about with the Laws Of The Game!!

You must log in or register to see images

 

[Robbie BB]

Games are won or lost by goals, not processes.

Wagner will not be judged on how many "moments" opposition players managed poorly, or our players managed effectively; he will be judged on how many "moments" opposition processes created or left us free to create. Moments decide games; processes decide league positions and championships

 

[RiverEndRick]

Processes aren't enough on their own as they are relative and subject to the opposition. Ipswich, on a 5 game unbeaten run, went to Leeds, who had taken 1 point from their previous two matches, and were totally and absolutely demolished. As Farke said afterwards:

"In the first-half they had two half-chances with shots from distance, but second half 'expected goals' was zero for them. I can't recall that in any game, it was incredible work from my players. In all phases, we were outstanding. In our possession, we had many good spells and we were controlling and dominating without the ball".

Those 2 half chances off target in the first half we're all Ipswich got as they failed to register a single shot in the second half. Processes without moments aren't enough. Ipswich have been fortunate with injuries so far, but that could change. That is perhaps Ipswich's first taste of what life in the PL could be like. Next up they face Leicester for the first time.

 

[Robbie BB]

Processes aren't enough on their own

Nobody is saying they are "enough on their own", but it's the teams whose play is based on the soundest processes who end up competing for the honours in any league. The fact that individual games can be won and lost purely on moments is what makes results like Man Utd 1:2 Norwich City possible in the Cup, or Norwich City 3:2 Man City possible in the league. But you won't win the league you compete in if your processes aren't sound.
On this same theme, and Wagner's future, see Chris Sutton's latest piece in the EDP: https://www.edp24.co.uk/sport/24008615.chris-sutton-big-run-david-wagner-norwich/
To quote: "This Norwich City side has produced moments not performances."

 

[RiverEndRick]

I agree that both are necessary, but it's also necessary to have the right players available. Would we have won either Championship campaign under Farke if Pukki and Buendia had been out as long as Sargent, Barnes and Sainz were out? I think not.

The processes were effective and we were unbeaten early in the season when Sargent was available and we had a settled lineup. Unfortunately injuries meant Wagner had to keep chopping and changing according to who was available. The true test will come now that we have most of the squad back, but Sargent returning is the most important of all. His pressing ability and all round play suits Wagner's tactics much better than Idah or Hwang do. Now it's up to Wagner to fit the processes to the players available.