inviting attack

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bobmid

bobmid

Well-Known Member
Aug 5, 2011
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West Yorkshire
Thats the main issue with the way we are using players in this formation. Its all about the players used in a setup and not the actual formation that is key. Nine times out of ten the better standard footballers would win if both teams lined up 4-4-2.
With using traore and isla who are both predominantly defensive minded players, we invite not only opposition wingers to attack but their full backs aswell.
We have played 3-5-2 or 3-5-1-1 at amateur level for years and there really isnt any difference to coaching or instructing proffesional players to do the same, infact it should in theory be easier.
The key is not the wide men where we are in effect playing 5-3-2 out of posession and therefore having very little support in attack when with the ball but instead its by having 2 defensive midfielders who concentrate on coverung full back positions and one (as germany played) dropping when necessary to make a four at the back.
We should play with hoillet and phillips out wide and play with no fear. We may have still lost by doing this but I bet we would have created a lot more and pushed their full backs back!
I would play this against burton

Green
onohua ferdinand caulker
Fer faurlin
phillips barton hoillet

Austin varga

isla I would be interested to see if he can play defensive midfield.
 
Personally think that way too much emphasis has been placed on formations and not enough on the quality of the personnel. As you say Bob, we are currently inviting teams on to us and having little or no support when we are attacking.
I ask a question - why has 4-4-2 suddenly become so outdated?
It's bollocks if you ask me much in the same way that consultants are now re-inventing wheels or taking your wrist watch from you in order to tell you the time and be paid handsomely for it.
Your team above is flawed, do you know why?
Because Fer, Phillips, Barton, Hoillett and probably Austin aren't up to the job.
Add in the fact that Ferdinand is on his last legs and we haven't a clue about Varga and you could say that whatever formation you play it doesn't make sense if you cant pass the ball, have the necessary skill levels and the right motivation.

3-5-2/4-1-1-1-3/4-3-3/ Whatever - If you have a team that cant pass -you're fooked
 
Love how you put it danish and find it hard to argue with you.
Never rated fer at norwich thought he was lazy. Mutch well seems mutch a do about nothing! I do think austin csn make the step up but it will be pointless if our crosses are coming in from our own half by full backs!!
 
bobmid said:
Thats the main issue with the way we are using players in this formation. Its all about the players used in a setup and not the actual formation that is key. Nine times out of ten the better standard footballers would win if both teams lined up 4-4-2.
With using traore and isla who are both predominantly defensive minded players, we invite not only opposition wingers to attack but their full backs aswell.
We have played 3-5-2 or 3-5-1-1 at amateur level for years and there really isnt any difference to coaching or instructing proffesional players to do the same, infact it should in theory be easier.
The key is not the wide men where we are in effect playing 5-3-2 out of posession and therefore having very little support in attack when with the ball but instead its by having 2 defensive midfielders who concentrate on coverung full back positions and one (as germany played) dropping when necessary to make a four at the back.
We should play with hoillet and phillips out wide and play with no fear. We may have still lost by doing this but I bet we would have created a lot more and pushed their full backs back!
I would play this against burton

Green
onohua ferdinand caulker
Fer faurlin
phillips barton hoillet

Austin varga

isla I would be interested to see if he can play defensive midfield.
Click to expand...

Great to hear from you Bob.

Also great to see you backing up my thoughts on the 3-5-2 system. I've been banging on about the importance of the two central midfielders for ages.
 
rangercol said:
Great to hear from you Bob.

Also great to see you backing up my thoughts on the 3-5-2 system. I've been banging on about the importance of the two central midfielders for ages.
Click to expand...

Thats how its done col. Not with the wing backs! They should be normal left and right sided midfielders! But as danish points out. Its personell aswell
 
bobmid said:
Thats the main issue with the way we are using players in this formation. Its all about the players used in a setup and not the actual formation that is key. Nine times out of ten the better standard footballers would win if both teams lined up 4-4-2.
With using traore and isla who are both predominantly defensive minded players, we invite not only opposition wingers to attack but their full backs aswell.
We have played 3-5-2 or 3-5-1-1 at amateur level for years and there really isnt any difference to coaching or instructing proffesional players to do the same, infact it should in theory be easier.
The key is not the wide men where we are in effect playing 5-3-2 out of posession and therefore having very little support in attack when with the ball but instead its by having 2 defensive midfielders who concentrate on coverung full back positions and one (as germany played) dropping when necessary to make a four at the back.
We should play with hoillet and phillips out wide and play with no fear. We may have still lost by doing this but I bet we would have created a lot more and pushed their full backs back!
I would play this against burton

Green
onohua ferdinand caulker
Fer faurlin
phillips barton hoillet

Austin varga

isla I would be interested to see if he can play defensive midfield.
Click to expand...


Bob, can you give some definition of the position you have allocated to Barton please?

Is it the role that Lampard played at Chelsea for years or slightly more withdrawn?
 
I agree Bob and nice to hear from you. One of those defensive players IMO has to be Henry. I simply don't know Fer yet and having Henry in there would allow Barton to play a bit

For away games I would play this lot

Green

......Onunha Ferdinand Caulker.......

Isla/Phillips.....Henry......Hoilett

............Barton..... Faurlin........
....................Mutch................

.................Remy..................
 
sb_73 said:
Where do the bees go in winter?

**** knows.

Let's start with trying as hard as they can.
Click to expand...

It's not Sunday morning football mate.........there's a bit more to it than trying hard (although that is vital of course).
 
rangercol said:
It's not Sunday morning football mate.........there's a bit more to it than trying hard (although that is vital of course).
Click to expand...

I know Col. I'm in a strange mood, forgot that it was a holiday and had a full day of phone calls with foreigners. Just happy that it has rained all day so we wouldn't have done much anyway. And we're into endless dissection on here. As you know, I like the formation but something much more fundamental has to be sorted out very quickly on the evidence of yesterday. Bob, as always, brings great insight, but the lack of ooomph, the playing by numbers and then forgetting the numbers, was, frankly, terrifying.

Spurs were good, but I think Chelsea, City, Arsenal and possibly Everton and Liverpool are much better.
 
sb_73 said:
I know Col. I'm in a strange mood, forgot that it was a holiday and had a full day of phone calls with foreigners. Just happy that it has rained all day so we wouldn't have done much anyway. And we're into endless dissection on here. As you know, I like the formation but something much more fundamental has to be sorted out very quickly on the evidence of yesterday. Bob, as always, brings great insight, but the lack of ooomph, the playing by numbers and then forgetting the numbers, was, frankly, terrifying.

Spurs were good, but I think Chelsea, City, Arsenal and possibly Everton and Liverpool are much better.
Click to expand...

I agree.
It would appear that those lacking the "oomph" were possibly Mutch and Fer. Would you play either of them on Saturday? I wouldn't.
 
danishqp said:
Personally think that way too much emphasis has been placed on formations and not enough on the quality of the personnel. As you say Bob, we are currently inviting teams on to us and having little or no support when we are attacking.
I ask a question - why has 4-4-2 suddenly become so outdated?
It's bollocks if you ask me much in the same way that consultants are now re-inventing wheels or taking your wrist watch from you in order to tell you the time and be paid handsomely for it.
Your team above is flawed, do you know why?
Because Fer, Phillips, Barton, Hoillett and probably Austin aren't up to the job.
Add in the fact that Ferdinand is on his last legs and we haven't a clue about Varga and you could say that whatever formation you play it doesn't make sense if you cant pass the ball, have the necessary skill levels and the right motivation.

3-5-2/4-1-1-1-3/4-3-3/ Whatever - If you have a team that cant pass -you're fooked
Click to expand...

Worryingly I tend to agree with you on this Danish..... Although Im hoping Hoddles input can make us greater than the sum of our parts. <ok>
 
Have nothing else really to add to this thread except to say Bob and Col - absolutely spot on. Couldn't have put it any better myself. It's crazy to think that when looking at our squad, I generally believe that we're far more suited to playing at least 2 different formations other than 3-5-2. Mental
 
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