Inverted Wingers

[Moorpheus19]

What's your thoughts on us constantly using them?

Townsend cutting in from the right, Lennon/Sigurdsson cutting in from the left.

I think it's all well and good so long as they're hitting the target at least but too often the shots are way off target. Lennon in particular is so bad at shooting that playing him anywhere other than RW nullifies him completely.

Soldado is a top striker but, like a customer at a bad restaurant, must wonder when he's gonna get proper service. Watch any video of him at Valencia and nearly all his goals come within the penalty box. We don't cross enough for him with inverted wingers playing.

I think we'd be much better playing with Lennon on the right and someone capable of crossing effectively from the left - Townsend's shooting is better than his crossing so maybe not him.

Inverted wingers could then become something a bit different - at the moment, 9 times out of 10, the winger cuts in and shoots or passes through the cramped middle. Very predictable.

True wingers create space by stretching the play - Soldado needs just a small bit of space in the box to score and true width would give him more chance to show his skill.

Thoughts?

 

[Boss]

Inverted wingers can work if there's space to run into as that way the full back can't be sure if the winger will go inside or outside.

Because we play such a controlling suffocating game then the Inverted wingers for me don't work as they run into congested areas, plus they aren't then stretching the defence.

Intially I wasn't keen on Townsend moving to the left, but if Avb is going to start with Lennon and Andros then we should try them as classic wingers as Lennon will cause problems down the right, especially this weekend against baines.

Bayern Munich who play with Inverted wingers use a 4141 formation and they play through their wingers alot and switch play.

We play narrow, so playing narrow and having a lack of quality passers, means that we don't use the ball well enough.

Avb obviously likes 4231 and wants his wingers to cut in and offer support, but the negative point is that we starve Soldado of crosses and become predictable.

Can't see much changing as we have Sandro, Capoue, Paulinho and Dembele, four players vying for central positions so this 4231 narrow setup is how Avb views our best setup.

 

[Roo]

Too many negatives which outweigh the positives, IMO.

Lennon can't shoot without scuffing the ball like a 5 year old who is still learning to kick a ball.
It's too narrow
It's one dimensional
We are Sussed out far too easily
Soldado struggles to get involved in the game

Using traditional wingers will create space when we've got the ball, as they can hug the touch line.
We have the option of cutting in or taking on the defender
Our pace is used more effectively
There will be larger pockets of space in central areas for holtby and eriksen to exploit
The wingers can cut the ball back for men (soldado) arriving in the box
2 pacey wingers in wide areas will force defenders to keep an eye on their man at all times, possibly even 2 defenders at a time.


However, I'm sure the opposition will suss this out too, so it's important we use both options. For me, it's about variety and being less predictable. That way the defending from the opposition will require a lot more thought than just "sitting deep" . - mistakes are bound to happen.

 

[PowerSpurs]

We need more patience with this. It worked very well last season with Bale on the right. Obviously Townsend (or Lamela) are not currently up to his standard but I still think Townsend is more dangerous on that side. I agree with the comments about Lennon above: this is part of the reason I think he is a squad player rather than one of our certain starters. Once we've got two full backs with the confidence and speed to overlap I think this system will work very well.

 

[notsosmartspur]

Firstly we need a manager to see the problems we see. I do not necessarily mean get a new one either, but if nothing changes thats another discussion to be had.

Lennon is only 100% effective in one position, as he has a real reluctance to use his left foot, with good reason I might add, its pretty useless! Some might say thats predictable, but as a FB you'll know if Lennons on his day, you also know exactly what he's going to do, but you can't stop it because he can be unplayable. So AL deployed on the left makes a RB's life a bit easier. I am aware he scored maybe once from that position, so maybe the defence parted like the Red Sea for him!, but over the number of seasons we've had him you wouldn't stake your hat on him doing it again, he never looks comfortable there imo.

The theory is fine with the right personnel, not just the wingers though, the rest of the attack aswell. I dunno, I've had this thought for some time now, so time to share it and you can all call me mad...even more than you do already!

I wonder at times if I see belligerence over this system, AVB seems almost desperate to shoehorn our players with no leeway.

Has he set his mind that he wants to be a success with this style of play, or the club? Why would he do that I hear you ask....Mourinho. I had no idea their relationship was that bad till our last game v Chelsea. We knew his dislike for Chelsea and JM seperatly anyway, but now the two are together again!? Barca and the way they play is the nemesis of JM. Are we seeing an underlying vendetta to eventually beat his old mentor Barca stylee whatever it takes. I hope not because it'll never work. Beat JM by all means, but let players do it the way they play best.

 

[Boss]

Avb IMO is one of these managers that can't get over rejection, that's why he constantly spoke about Chelsea and then had to put his side of the story in the press about Mourinho. It wouldn't surprise me if we did manage to finish above Chelsea the first thing Avb would be thinking is '' that has shown them''.... Rather then just enjoy the moment.

Some may see that as a negative and others a positive but I definitely view him as quite bitter about what happened with Mourinho and Chelsea.

 

[Spurm]

On championship manager i used to play a formation with 4 wingers. If we did the same we could use both systems simultaneously.
My team scored a lot of goals that season, admittedly they let in quite a few too and Ledley was constantly unhappy.

 

[Spurm]

With centre forward being an issue and with us stockpiling attacking mids i wonder if we'll ever attempt the false 9

 

[PowerSpurs]

Firstly we need a manager to see the problems we see. I do not necessarily mean get a new one either, but if nothing changes thats another discussion to be had.

What problems? Everything is going to plan as far as I can see. We are keeping the ball, denying the opposition quality possession and goals and creating chances of our own. We've had our best PL start ever and have yet to concede a goal outside London. All this with half the squad changed from last year, and our best ever player gone.
There is a reason why AVB is paid highly to manage us and we are just posting on a bulletin board.

 

[No Kane No Gain]

Avb IMO is one of these managers that can't get over rejection, that's why he constantly spoke about Chelsea and then had to put his side of the story in the press about Mourinho. It wouldn't surprise me if we did manage to finish above Chelsea the first thing Avb would be thinking is '' that has shown them''.... Rather then just enjoy the moment.

Some may see that as a negative and others a positive but I definitely view him as quite bitter about what happened with Mourinho and Chelsea.

There's quite a lot of assumption in that, although I do disagree that AVB would love to beat Chelsea. I'd be pretty pissed off too if I left a safe job where I was happy, got offered a new job and was charged with restructuring the team I was working in only to be fired before I had a chance to prove myself because colleagues were undermining me.

Anyway, inverted wingers... they can work but I do like to see wingers getting down the line and whipping in crosses.

 

[Sidney Fiddler]

I met a girl many years ago with inverted nipples , they would pop out occasionally .

 

[totsfan]

A mixture of both is best imo,it keeps the defence guessing,and if nothing is on,they can come inside and have a go themselves

 

[totsfan]

I met a girl many years ago with inverted nipples , they would pop out occasionally .

When it was cold?

 

[Boss]

There's quite a lot of assumption in that, although I do disagree that AVB would love to beat Chelsea. I'd be pretty pissed off too if I left a safe job where I was happy, got offered a new job and was charged with restructuring the team I was working in only to be fired before I had a chance to prove myself because colleagues were undermining me.

Anyway, inverted wingers... they can work but I do like to see wingers getting down the line and whipping in crosses.

I'm getting in all the negative points before we beat Everton 1-0 and Townsend scores as after that I'll be silenced!

 

[PowerSpurs]

I do like to see wingers getting down the line and whipping in crosses.

I agree it makes for great entertainment, but I think that it is generally a bad tactic: loses the ball too often for the number of goals it gets you. It should be the exception surprise tactic rather than Plan A.

I think this is the sort of thing that has been discovered from analysis of the massive amount of data now available. Many other sports and games have changed beyond recognition by the application of technology and football is one of the last to catch up. We all have to get used to the fact that what we used to think of as common sense won't win matches in the future.

 

[No Kane No Gain]

I'm getting in all the negative points before we beat Everton 1-0 and Townsend scores as after that I'll be silenced!

I meant to write "I don't disagree" bloody double negatives

A bit like with Dempsey, if I get proven wrong for believing in this team I'll go back and delete any trace that I ever defended them

 

[No Kane No Gain]

I agree it makes for great entertainment, but I think that it is generally a bad tactic: loses the ball too often for the number of goals it gets you. It should be the exception surprise tactic rather than Plan A.

I think this is the sort of thing that has been discovered from analysis of the massive amount of data now available. Many other sports and games have changed beyond recognition by the application of technology and football is one of the last to catch up. We all have to get used to the fact that what we used to think of as common sense won't win matches in the future.

But the thing is, it's a fairly easy tactic to pull off so if you can get the wingers sending in 10 or more crosses per game then you've got a good chance of us getting a chance or the defence making a mistake which leads to a chance. It's also quicker, getting it down the line doesn't take long yet our build up at the moment is very ponderous and is struggling to make us any chances. Long term I think you're right but whilst the players are still getting to know eachother I'd like to see us play more direct in general, not just in our wide play necessarily.

 

[Boss]

I meant to write "I don't disagree" bloody double negatives

A bit like with Dempsey, if I get proven wrong for believing in this team I'll go back and delete any trace that I ever defended them

At the end of this season if you're right, along with you're Avb crew with your sidekicks totsfan, powerspur, Spurm, Pnp, Spurf and others.......... Then the posters which have been slating Avb... Cough.(looks in the mirror) .... NOTso sure who else but I can hear a moaning spurCAT in the background will have to eat alot of humble pie!

 

[SpursDisciple]

Too many negatives which outweigh the positives, IMO.

Lennon can't shoot without scuffing the ball like a 5 year old who is still learning to kick a ball.
It's too narrow
It's one dimensional
We are Sussed out far too easily
Soldado struggles to get involved in the game

Using traditional wingers will create space when we've got the ball, as they can hug the touch line.
We have the option of cutting in or taking on the defender
Our pace is used more effectively
There will be larger pockets of space in central areas for holtby and eriksen to exploit
The wingers can cut the ball back for men (soldado) arriving in the box
2 pacey wingers in wide areas will force defenders to keep an eye on their man at all times, possibly even 2 defenders at a time.


However, I'm sure the opposition will suss this out too, so it's important we use both options. For me, it's about variety and being less predictable. That way the defending from the opposition will require a lot more thought than just "sitting deep" . - mistakes are bound to happen.

I agree. It's not like they can't come inside from their normal wings. Lennon has scored coming in from the right, and Townsend has scored a couple of spectacular ones with his right foot. If either were happy crossing with their weaker foot, I'd say keep it as it is, just ask them to go outside more, but I haven't seen much of Lennon crossing with his left.

 

[No Kane No Gain]

At the end of this season if you're right, along with you're Avb crew with your sidekicks totsfan, powerspur, Spurm, Pnp, Spurf and others.......... Then the posters which have been slating Avb... Cough.(looks in the mirror) .... NOTso sure who else but I can hear a moaning spurCAT in the background will have to eat alot of humble pie!

I've had to eat a lot of humble pie over the years, you get used to it.

We have a bit of a laugh about being pro and anti AVB but really all I'm saying is that I'm going to be patient with the squad and AVB. I'll also be positive about our chances but I'm usually pretty positive about stuff, Soldado is a good example as I didn't want him and so far pretty much shown why I didn't want him but since he's joined I've been convinced he'll be a success. Infact AVB's the same, I wanted Moyes!