Off Topic International Break Thread

[Citizen Kane.]

The amount of English people who seem to enjoy it when we lose is weird to me.

Very quiet when England do well like the last World Cup and Euros but suddenly very vocal recently.

Gladly tell that to my neighbour who was blasting Baddiel and Skinner at full volume all hours of the day and night for the duration of the Euros.

The amount of hype every tournament is unbelievable, and usually one of the main reasons we never win anything.

This squad has been hyped beyond any realm of logic.

 

[The Changing Man]

I agree they’re not a golden generation.

Results wise in the last euros and world cup they’ve acheived a lot more than the Scholes, Gerrard, Lampard team though.

It's very difficult to compare eras, I think Southgate has done well, and we have done well in the last 2 tournaments but hardly beaten anyone of note.

Luck is fickle mistress, Southgate has had is fair share, Sven less so, think of Rooneys sending off v Portugal, and the subsequent defeat on pens, we outplayed them 2 years earlier as well only 2 lose on pens again. Narrow margins or that side may have reached semis and finals too.

 

[littleDinosaurLuke]

England are the Arsenal of international football.
Look good on paper - with a few undoubtedly talented individuals.
But then there are standout weaknesses, which get cruelly exposed from time to time, but are never addressed.
Nearly achieve, but ultimately fail because they aren’t good enough.
Play well for a period, which wins over the doubters and papers over the cracks for a while.
Then the cycle starts again.

 

[Spurf]

Correct, because they played as a team and the whole was greater than the sum of its parts. Much like we were under BMJ and in the early days of Harry and Poch.

I think Southgate is good at that as he seems to be a good motivator and a calm head who favours a safety first approach, but unless you are Greece or Portugal the only way to win international tournaments is to eventually allow some individual sums to shine. There is no question we are not getting the best - or anything for that matter - out of our best players.

It's always difficult to compare different football generations but I think we have a lot of very talented young players that would stand up in any era. What we also have is a manager with very limited experience who is far too cautious in his play. People think we have done well because we reached a final and a semi final. We did that with Robson and Venables both immeasurably better managers who I am sure would have loved to work with the current crop. Southgate has done nothing in his career to warrant being an England manager and it shows.

 

[KingHotspur]

It's always difficult to compare different football generations but I think we have a lot of very talented young players that would stand up in any era. What we also have is a manager with very limited experience who is far too cautious in his play. People think we have done well because we reached a final and a semi final. We did that with Robson and Venables both immeasurably better managers who I am sure would have loved to work with the current crop. Southgate has done nothing in his career to warrant being an England manager and it shows.

Very harsh words on Southgate I feel.

He’s got to a WC semi and a Euros final. Neither Robson or Venables rescued a final. I agree they were better managers than Southgate but you have to give him credit for the results in the last two major tournaments regardless of how you feel about him.

 

[KingHotspur]

It's very difficult to compare eras, I think Southgate has done well, and we have done well in the last 2 tournaments but hardly beaten anyone of note.

Luck is fickle mistress, Southgate has had is fair share, Sven less so, think of Rooneys sending off v Portugal, and the subsequent defeat on pens, we outplayed them 2 years earlier as well only 2 lose on pens again. Narrow margins or that side may have reached semis and finals too.

Luck always plays a small part in glory.

I just think it’s harsh to say that’s the only reason for England doing well in the last couple of tournaments.

 

[Spurf]

Very harsh words on Southgate I feel.

He’s got to a WC semi and a Euros final. Neither Robson or Venables rescued a final. I agree they were better managers than Southgate but you have to give him credit for the results in the last two major tournaments regardless of how you feel about him.

I don't have to give him anything because I watched those games and we were again so negative. There was no real intent to win just like we saw against Italy twice. The England team had more than enough to win both games but pussyfooted around and gave Italy a draw in both cases. He gets nothing from me.

 

[remembercolinlee]

Watching England is as tedious as watching us under JM and Nuno imho.

 

[Spurf]

I'll say it again great managers like Redknapp and Clough were never given a chance because their faces did not fit. Southgate is not in the job through football nous, he is there because he is a nice man who wont offend anyone. FFS

 

[Dier Hard]

Southgate's great for team building but horrific as an actual football manager.

We got far in the WC and Euro's despite of his management, not because of it.

We all saw this season at Spurs the difference of an average and a top class manager and we'd likely see it with England.

Keep Southgate as an assistant/ consultant, hire someone with genuine pedigree and we'll be one of the favourites for the WC - not happening of course, but that'd be the ideal situation for me.

 

[Spurf]

Southgate's great for team building but horrific as an actual football manager.

We got far in the WC and Euro's despite of his management, not because of it.

We all saw this season at Spurs the difference of an average and a top class manager and we'd likely see it with England.

Keep Southgate as an assistant/ consultant, hire someone with genuine pedigree and we'll be one of the favourites for the WC - not happening of course, but that'd be the ideal situation.

Correct

 

[KingHotspur]

While do think the World Cup could be a disaster because of several reasons and will probably be the end of Southgate, is there a clear contender for the job?

Poch is likely to be unemployed soon, would he take the England job even though he’s probably far from finished at club level and would his style suit the international setup where you don’t get to work with the players day in day out?

 

[Citizen Kane.]

Very harsh words on Southgate I feel.

He’s got to a WC semi and a Euros final. Neither Robson or Venables rescued a final. I agree they were better managers than Southgate but you have to give him credit for the results in the last two major tournaments regardless of how you feel about him.

I didn't get the fuss about reaching the semis in the WC. We beat Tunisia by a single goal, hammered Panama and lost to Belgium. Then we scraped past Colombia, beat Sweden and lost to Croatia before losing to Belgium again in the 3rd-place play off.

What was remotely impressive about that run?

Euro 2020 was much more impressive for so many reasons, I agree. The problem is the WC tends to be harder due to the presence of the South American teams which is why I don't have much confidence ahead of Qatar.

 

[The Changing Man]

Luck always plays a small part in glory.

I just think it’s harsh to say that’s the only reason for England doing well in the last couple of tournaments.

Yes you maybe right, but I will stand by the fact that whist Southgate has presided over a good period of results but we have beaten very few of the better nations in that time, and there have been very few performances that have been particularly memorable.

 

[The Huddlefro]

I couldn’t watch this but from seeing the stats I’m going to assume England had plenty of the ball but created no clear-cut chances because they lack the cornerstone player for any international side - the one who can dictate the pace of the game from midfield. We have plenty of strong options at 10 and in the forward positions but nobody who can dictate a game. Rice is a good midfielder but isn’t that player.

The biggest problem Southgate has is that midfield position, alongside LB and the defence. Some of that is out of his hands - he can’t make England produce a version of Harry Winks that is actually good enough to force their way into his selection, and it’s not his fault no LBs are fit.

It’s important to remember that while these are competitive games, he’s mainly using them for tinkering. The likes of Bellingham, Gallagher, Bowen might have looked good at league level but it’s important to get a proper look at them in internationals. But he’s got a lot of work to do to get the nation back onside. There is no way that even a depleted England side should be performing like it has done this window, even if this isn’t the golden generation people think it is.

 

[littleDinosaurLuke]

They should have played Jonny Bairstow
He was in sublime form for England
He couldn’t have done worse

 

[Spurf]

While do think the World Cup could be a disaster because of several reasons and will probably be the end of Southgate, is there a clear contender for the job?

Poch is likely to be unemployed soon, would he take the England job even though he’s probably far from finished at club level and would his style suit the international setup where you don’t get to work with the players day in day out?

Picking someone to manage England is never easy because as you say it's quite different from club management. Whoever they pick it should be someone with lots of experience and a track record of managing top players. They should be picked on football ability not because they wear a tie. (Sorry O.S) They also need to be tactically astute, bring back Venables

 

[KingHotspur]

Picking someone to manage England is never easy because as you say it's quite different from club management. Whoever they pick it should be someone with lots of experience and a track record of managing top players. They should be picked on football ability not because they wear a tie. (Sorry O.S) They also need to be tactically astute, bring back Venables

I agree with that. Southgate was a safe appointment. The worst appointment England made was when they chose Woy over Harry.

The next England manager will have to be a progressive proactive manager.

 

[Billy The Spur]

What a stupid time to play 4 competitive international fixtures in quick succession, at the end of a rigorous season when all the players are knackered and would clearly rather be on their holidays. Most of them were already on the beach mentally, and it showed.

 

[Spurf]

Footballgate for Southgate