International Break Thread

Spur of the Moment said:
Fair point, Spurf - although for my part it was the frustration with Dembele last season, as we knew what he was capable of from his time at Fulham and a few occasional sparks with us. Despite him having a good season with us last year, I don't see Nabs at the same level as Dembele at their best and he will have to continue to develop massively on his return next season to achieve that. Would be great if he manages to do that! :emoticon-0148-yes:
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I can see similarities between the two in the sense that - at first glance - neither player is a 'natural' fit in Poch's system. This was always my feeling about Dembele; an outrageously gifted player who couldn't quite make up his mind what his strongest position actually was. It is telling that even before he came here, he had already played in two different positions (ST and AM) for significant lengths of time. Neither of them are quite good enough defensively to be a true DM, neither are quite creative enough to be a deep-lying CM. Neither score or create enough to play further forward...and yet...Dembele somehow 'clicked' this season, and appears equally comfortable next to Dier as he is further forward in the '3'. I've no idea how or why this happened, as he remains a superb player who doesn't really have one outstanding quality for the Poch system, but it has worked out brilliantly.

The flipside of all this is that the absolute key to a player finding their place in the side is consistency. It is ironic but one of the main reasons Dembele has had such a great season is that, unlike last year where he barely strung 2 matches together, he benefited from injuries to Bentaleb, Mason and Eriksen earlier on in the season. Credit to him though - he seized the opportunity and has forced 2 of those 3 out of the side. Will Bentaleb get the same opportunity? I doubt it.
 
Citizen Kane said:
I can see similarities between the two in the sense that - at first glance - neither player is a 'natural' fit in Poch's system. This was always my feeling about Dembele; an outrageously gifted player who couldn't quite make up his mind what his strongest position actually was. It is telling that even before he came here, he had already played in two different positions (ST and AM) for significant lengths of time. Neither of them are quite good enough defensively to be a true DM, neither are quite creative enough to be a deep-lying CM. Neither score or create enough to play further forward...and yet...Dembele somehow 'clicked' this season, and appears equally comfortable next to Dier as he is further forward in the '3'. I've no idea how or why this happened, as he remains a superb player who doesn't really have one outstanding quality for the Poch system, but it has worked out brilliantly.

The flipside of all this is that the absolute key to a player finding their place in the side is consistency. It is ironic but one of the main reasons Dembele has had such a great season is that, unlike last year where he barely strung 2 matches together, he benefited from injuries to Bentaleb, Mason and Eriksen earlier on in the season. Credit to him though - he seized the opportunity and has forced 2 of those 3 out of the side. Will Bentaleb get the same opportunity? I doubt it.
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I think that Dembele clicks in the system because it plays to a lot of his strengths and none of his weaknesses.
Dier's got the more defensive role, so he's more box-to-box, while starting from a deeper position.
He's not there to pick out amazing, incisive passes. He's there to cover a lot of ground, keep the ball and give it to our creative players.
That allows him to use his engine, physical ability and bursts of pace, while ignoring his finishing and longer passing.

Eriksen, Lamela, Alli, Kane and our fullbacks do a lot of the damage going forward.
He just has to get the ball, move it forward and then give it to someone dangerous.
His most outstanding trait is his ability to hold off tackles. It looks virtually impossible for one player to tackle him, at times.
He must give opposition midfielders an absolute nightmare, when he's at his best.

Can Bentaleb match that? I'm not sure. I don't think that he'd play the role in the exact same manner.
His ball retention isn't as good, but he's better at picking out a pass when he's fully fit.
He definitely has the engine to play the role and I think he could offer us a great option there, if he can get right.
 
I think Bentaleb could play the role alongside Dier, but in no way as a carbon copy of Dembele, not many can replicate his particular set of attributes. Technically Bentaleb is excellent, probably better than Dembele, and although he doesn't have the Belgian's strength and bulk he's a tall lad and has a wiry strength about him. He doesn't need to bulk up any more, in fact I'd actively discourage it. He's a fighter too - reminds me a little of Alli in that regard. Sure he's a lovely chap off the pitch but he has a bit of an edge to him. Hides it better than young Dele, but its there. He could play Dier's role too, if he learnt the position and becomes disciplined enough when he has to be.

Bentaleb has a presence in the team, you notice it especially when we play opposition within his comfort zone. He always seems to be calm and have an extra split second on the ball. If we can develop his leadership and footballing skills to the point where he can exert that kind of authority regularly at PL level and above, then we've one hell of a player. Given that last season we all thought of him as one of the most important names on the team sheet, I see no reason why at his age he shouldn't be able to do that. In full flow he makes the game look easy, and that is a big compliment.

I just hope, as many others do, that the sole reason he's been out is knee surgery-related issues. Bad news for the kid but hopefully in the long run this means that there are no underlying issues internally and he's ready to go next season. Particularly if the likes of Dier and Dembele (and probably anyone we're likely to be recruiting in his position) are off to the Euros then it'll be good to have a fully rested Bentaleb ready to push them.
 
Spurf said:
I think people who want us to offload Bentaleb should perhaps remember what most of us thought about Dembele last season. Similar Mason, who has also had a season ruined by injury we have a great squad and these player are an important part of it IMO.
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I agree. Sadly, people tend to be quick to write off young players.
 
It says on the Sky sports website that Vertonghen is in the Belgium squad, is this true? and if so is it good or bad news?
 
Citizen Kane said:
Would you see him sold in order to bring in proper cover for Dier?
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Yes I could see that as a possibility. There's no doubt Poch is looking to bring in players who can offer more consistency to our midfield.

I like Bentaleb, I like Mason, they are talented players, but at the moment, they are not consistent enough to prevent Poch from looking for immediate consistency, hence our genuine interest in Henderson.
 
O.Spurcat said:
Yes I could see that as a possibility. There's no doubt Poch is looking to bring in players who can offer more consistency to our midfield.

I like Bentaleb, I like Mason, they are talented players, but at the moment, they are not consistent enough to prevent Poch from looking for immediate consistency, hence our genuine interest in Henderson.
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<yikes>

Please say that isn't true!
 
Henderson is an interesting one, he probably gets a lot of stick because Roy seems to love him for England and he's seen in that light as plodding and dour. He is undoubtedly a consistent player who shows flashes of real quality now and then but he wouldn't be a massively inspiring signing IMO. Then again neither was Dier for many of us initially, and look what he's become for us, and at least Henderson is used to playing a game similar to ours in terms of intensity and style so you'd imagine he would adapt well to Spurs. His managers also seem to view him as a leadership figure even though he's 25 (reasonably young still), which no doubt would be attractive to Poch with a young squad that can always benefit from more leaders. He does has a reoccurring and incurable foot/heel problem I believe.

If we signed him we'd still need backup for Dier though as Henderson is better suited to getting around the park than playing Dier's role in the team, in my opinion. Could spell the end for someone like Carroll or Bentaleb, or even Chadli as I have a suspicion that Poch views Mason as someone better suited to playing in the 3 than the 2.
 
The Huddlefro said:
Henderson is an interesting one, he probably gets a lot of stick because Roy seems to love him for England and he's seen in that light as plodding and dour. He is undoubtedly a consistent player who shows flashes of real quality now and then but he wouldn't be a massively inspiring signing IMO. Then again neither was Dier for many of us initially, and look what he's become for us, and at least Henderson is used to playing a game similar to ours in terms of intensity and style so you'd imagine he would adapt well to Spurs. His managers also seem to view him as a leadership figure even though he's 25 (reasonably young still), which no doubt would be attractive to Poch with a young squad that can always benefit from more leaders. He does has a reoccurring and incurable foot/heel problem I believe.

If we signed him we'd still need backup for Dier though as Henderson is better suited to getting around the park than playing Dier's role in the team, in my opinion. Could spell the end for someone like Carroll or Bentaleb, or even Chadli as I have a suspicion that Poch views Mason as someone better suited to playing in the 3 than the 2.
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He's on £100k per week in Mouserland and would cost circa £20m. I don't see that he justifies that outlay unless Mauricio can transform him into a game-changing player.
 
YounesKaBOOM said:
It says on the Sky sports website that Vertonghen is in the Belgium squad, is this true? and if so is it good or bad news?
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Good?

Why would it be bad?

As for Henderson....exactly the kind of potential the General would bring onto another level. Henderson would be very good for us and would play the kind of game he had in the season they finished 2nd. He was decent with Suarez on the pitch allowing Henderson to find spaces in the last third. Kane does a lot of this too, where he takes players out wide with him creating holes got other players to exploit. Alli is prospering from this well currently.
 
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I like Henderson, actually think he's a really good player but reports said were readying a £20m bid, Liverpool paid £16m for him a few years back, they'd never sell for only a £4m profit on a guy who's improved in his time there and they'd surely be reluctant to let him go to a much better team as it pushes them back even further :)

The only thing with Henderson is that where would he fit in? Our two CM's are nailed on in Dier and Dembele, there's no way Alli or Eriksen will be dropped so it'd mean Henderson maybe fitting in at RM where he played at times for Sunderland. Because I'm damn sure if he did ever join us it wouldn't be to take up a squad rotation role/ back up for Dier.
 
The Huddlefro said:
Henderson is an interesting one, he probably gets a lot of stick because Roy seems to love him for England and he's seen in that light as plodding and dour. He is undoubtedly a consistent player who shows flashes of real quality now and then but he wouldn't be a massively inspiring signing IMO. Then again neither was Dier for many of us initially, and look what he's become for us
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That is unfair on Dier. He was bought for the way future.
Young, English, and having been thru the Sporting Lisbon academy (which produces decent
ball-playing prospects) . He may have become a Toby-esque CB given time (may still do so) .
 
Heard Brazil on TalkShite this morning demonstrating the ingrained opinion about Rooney among the "top pundits". Commenting on LeTiss saying (and it's nice to hear honesty for a change) that Rooney shouldn't be picked for England, Brazil said "he doesn't mean it like that". It was if he couldn't contemplate the idea that Rooney isn't a first choice pick and anyone that deviates from the gospel must be mad. The only thing I see happening hear is that Hodgson is being granted a better team than he would otherwise pick because of injuries, now I hear Sterling is out too. I do despair however that regardless of how well the team does against Germany, if Willshire, Sterling, Rooney et al become available then they will be shoveled in.
 
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The RDBD said:
That is unfair on Dier. He was bought for the way future.
Young, English, and having been thru the Sporting Lisbon academy (which produces decent
ball-playing prospects) . He may have become a Toby-esque CB given time (may still do so) .
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Dier was absolutely bought for the future and a damn fine decision too now we look at it. But many of us wanted a Toby-esque signing there and then, which he emphatically wasn't. Fazio was supposed to be (lol). Dier excited us all I think, but was also conspicuous at the time for what he wasn't - someone of Toby's standing. Now of course he's a key player and its an entirely different ball game.

Back to Henderson, I'd forgotten the sum Liverpool paid for him and that to was actually pretty sizeable. And of course his wages which are high indeed for our bracket. While he's a good player he's not exactly the missing cog in the team, so we'd find it hard to justify the necessary outlay I think. For what we'd probably need to spend to get him, it'd be underwhelming to see him holding the shirt.
 
The Changing Man said:
I actually like to see England do well, and like seeing our players in the squad. However for these 2 matches I hope that because Harry has already shown that he is the real deal, that Roy gives Vardy both matches, 1 with Welbeck and 1 with Sturridge and that he also gives Danny Drinkwater both matches to give him the best chance to prove his worth! I have bad feeling though that its Harry who will play twice.
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Yup. Vardy and Drinkwater to play all 90, Spurs to watch. Also, let's experiment with playing extra time in friendlies.
 
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