Innovations and Tyres

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BrightLampShade

BrightLampShade

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Feb 14, 2011
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In an attempt to try and have an F1 discussion I thought I'd make a topic. In the past we've had clever little innovations that have made big differences, double diffusers, Blown diffusers, F duct (maybe?)... and so on.

It's obviously hard to predict what the next big thing is but does anyone have an inkling about anything they've seen in testing that could prove to be a race winner.

On a separate note, i'm guessing the tyres you qualify on (Q3) still have to be used at the start of the race. In this case do you thing we'll see people making it to Q3 and if they are only likely to get 8th th 10th say, then not going out so the have another lap or two of fresh rubber to make a difference in the race if the drop off is as bad as we've seen so far.

Cheers.

[ now be nice people :emoticon-0103-cool: ]
 
Of all we've seen, I'm interested most by Toro Rosso's double floor design. It seems a very different way to have gone, and I'm curious as to the impact it has on the car. Also, I'm not sure whether other teams could copy it, as I think that the floor has to be homogenated as part of the crash structure. Anyone else know any more on this?
 
DHCanary said:
Of all we've seen, I'm interested most by Toro Rosso's double floor design. It seems a very different way to have gone, and I'm curious as to the impact it has on the car. Also, I'm not sure whether other teams could copy it, as I think that the floor has to be homogenated as part of the crash structure. Anyone else know any more on this?
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Same. Not sure whether it can be copied though.

IMO they should scrap the Q3 rule, it'll get to the point where people try to avoid finishing in the top ten. The way the (super)softs are degrading, the front runners will have to pit on the first lap. It's not just one extra lap they do, they have the in and out laps too, and the second lap of the three they're absolutely ragging it. Quali will trash the softer compounds.
 
I guess it could lead to an interesting strategy in Q3. Go for the hard tyres and give up on pole, but have a longer first stint, or go for softs and hope to break clear of the pack in the opening laps. If everyone is on one tyre compound, this is irrelevant, but surely it'd be tempting for the likes of Williams, Force India, Torro Rosso to go with softs and try and get pole?
 
Hopefully the tyres will bring out some outrageousness strategies which will result in some interesting overtakes. Also interested to see what the inter's can do compared to the bridgestones.

The double floor has to be incorporated into the chassis surely, which will make copying it very difficult, assuming it turns out to work of course. Wonder if we'll see any new U/L shaped sidepods come the mid season, though i imagine thats equally difficult to design mid season.

I'd really like to see varied cars with strong points in different area's to mix things up a bit.
 
I imagine the problem with copying the Mclarens sidepods is that the way they channel air to the rear of the car will be different, and so it can't easily be adapted to work as well on another car. Mclaren had all winter to hone that design, its not something that another team can bolt on for instant performance. Saying that though, theres no proof it actually gives extra performance! It may be that Mclaren have simply gone in a slightly different direction with their design, giving radical looks but similar performance!

Edit: Maybe this is the way to keep WUMs away! All the technical threads seem to deter them, I think I'm going to stick to techy threads in future for the higher quality discussion you seem to get!
 
The point raised about qualifying outside the top ten is quite interesting. Maybe given the tyre fall off rate this year 11th place on the grid will be the best place to start. I wonder if we'll see more races won this year from positions other than pole?

If you have a car with a good long run pace then pole or a top 10 grid spot may not be optimal. Stick the car in 11th with harder tyres and just keep up with the front 10 and pass them when thye pit. Just a thought.
 
There could be some cars out there not set up to go quick, but set up to conserve their tyres. In theory there should be a few quick 3 stoppers Vs Slower (paced) 2 stoppers this season.
 
Seems a little odd that refueling was banned yet we are now going to be faced with pitstops being just as important as pre-ban because of the tyre ware rate.
 
Bob Bobbinz said:
Seems a little odd that refueling was banned yet we are now going to be faced with pitstops being just as important as pre-ban because of the tyre ware rate.
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At least now people can choose not to pit without running out of fuel. Though tyres that are 3 seconds a lap off aren't ideal. On the tyre front I'm happy to give them a few races to see how it works out.

on the innovations front I hope we get to see some clever designs which aren't hidden away out of sight.
 
Inovations developed recently have produced huge front wings that are out of the line of sight of the drivers.
The chance of seeing cars without front wings in races, as evidenced by many getting ripped off in the past is even greater with these huge probosci..
I wonder if teams have wind-tunnel tested the cars as they may be running without front nose/wings .
Inovations to increase passing must decrease "dirty air" in the rear of the car. In order to accomplish that, the wings must be diminished greatly, and at the same time reduce the size of the tires<(to slow the cars) AND raise the cars, but increase ground effects at the same time...
simply put,...
LESS "dirty air" promotes passing ...on the altered tracks as Sir Jackie has proposed...
 
BrightLampShade said:
...i'm guessing the tyres you qualify on (Q3) still have to be used at the start of the race. In this case do you thing we'll see people making it to Q3 and if they are only likely to get 8th th 10th say, then not going out so the have another lap or two of fresh rubber to make a difference in the race if the drop off is as bad as we've seen so far.
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That poses a very interesting question: I don't suppose there is a rule that says it is mandatory to go out in Q3 once a driver has reached it, but if too many teams adopted the kind of approach you suggested, would the FIA have to introduce one? It would be a farce if, say, only six drivers attempted to set a Q3 time. And what about those in the next few positions, wouldn't they feel a bit miffed? If I had just busted a gut and finished 11th, I wouldn't take kindly to the tenth placed qualifier sitting out Q3 in his garage!
Perhaps the FIA would make a rule allowing them to 'promote' drivers from the Q2 places in that eventuality, which could make the whole thing a right mess as I can't see how that would be enforcable (mind you, I can't see how the driver adjustable wing is going to be enforcable either, but that hasn't stopped them introducing it).
 
I think the ARW is controlled entirely by electronics, and linked to timing devices. Its supposed to be impossible to use when not allowed to. I can't be bothered to go into it fully unless you want me to try, but the system should be foolproof, if complex.

I don't think you can make drivers go out in Q3 if they don't want to. If you did, theres nothing to stop them driving a slow lap and then returning to the pits anyway, to conserve the tyres. If you start trying to artificially alter the grid post-qualifying, F1 will be hit by more complaining about results being altered after the event. I think tyre condition may decide whether drivers can afford another run for pole or not, which could be interesting. If a car is particularly hard on its tyres, a driver may only be allowed by the team one hot lap, because another will degrade the tyres so much that there'd be no gain in doing so. (In the race they'd have to pit early and come out in traffic, costing them any time gained).
 
Glad your all enjoying it

I wonder if we'll get many failures of the movable rear wing this year, if so it would only effect the car trying to do the overtaking, unless it was to get stuck open, that could cause some serious oversteer issues :)
 
I think the ARW has to fail to the full downforce position, I'm under the impression that that's a requirement of the system for safety reasons. I'm not sure whether he has anything to say on this topic, but for technical explanations, I find ScarbsF1, http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/ is really good at explaining things.
 
A few more of these you mean?

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Love how he tried to get the car home in the second one. Legend.
 
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BrightLampShade said:
Glad your all enjoying it

I wonder if we'll get many failures of the movable rear wing this year, if so it would only effect the car trying to do the overtaking, unless it was to get stuck open, that could cause some serious oversteer issues :)
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The wings are designed to fail safe, i.e. in the high downforce position, and they also automatically revert to this position when the driver hits the brake pedal, so theoretically they should be safe.
But I did notice a comment a while back, from a driver or a team manager I think (can't remember who said it, but it was earlier this year after some testing had been carried out) that suggested that the device might not act quickly enough to restore full downforce for the corner, given how late the drivers would be braking, meaning they might have to disengage it manually, a split second before applying the brakes. This is where errors may creep in. At best, such errors could increase overtaking; at worst, they might lead to accidents.
 
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