As I said, I'm just some nob head on an internet football forum and therefore largely to be ignored. And you're right, of course, there are caveats with pretty much all of those players. Maradona was rarely surrounded by the great players that Pele, Messi, Iniesta, etc... were and that was why he was always the greatest of all time for me before Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo came along. And while Cruyff and Messi never won World Cups, they did play in a final each (maybe more with Messi). You make a good point on the generational side of things, though. Ask someone over 70 who the greatest of all time was and you'll generally get Pele with Best getting a few mentions. A decade or so younger and you're more likely to get Cruyff or Beckenbauer. 40 somethings with tend to go with Maradona (with the odd Platini). Zidane will get more support from your 30 somethings, and so on. Who you grew up with as a footballing hero is bound to influence your choice on this. Which is how it should be. As a cricket lover, the equivalent debate in the sport is a bit boring as no matter what you come up with it generally comes back to it clearly being Bradman. At least in football it's a legitimate debate!
Coming up with an all-round 'greatest' is impossible imo, as you can't compare positions, when they played, what they won, etc. Also there will always be a problem with bias, whether that be club or nationality. As Rich said, age of the person definitely comes into it, at least in my experience - personally I find it impossible to say someone who played before my time was the greatest, purely because I didn't experience watching them at that time. My great-granddad says Raich was the best, my granddad says Matthews is the best, my dad says Maradona, I say Zidane. My personal fave player ever is Zidane, but I would say players like Maldini and Ronaldo (the real one) were as good, but you can't truly compare them because of position.
Well, I am 68 and always say Maradona. Certainly he was the most influential. Jimmy Greaves said he was for the reason Napoli won nothing before him and after. And made the point many people could rattle off the names of most of the 1970 Brazil World Cup winners and even a fair few of the 1958 Brazil team when it came to the more recent Argentinian ones Maradona was in then they would struggle for names other than him. And, he didn't just do it in a different country, he did it on a different continent. Whereas Pele only ever played for one club. Of course another difference is people are able to see everything a playervdoes now. Years ago they couldn't. There aren't many clips of Matthews or Finney (and Bill Shankly would be making his case. There are few clips of our best like up of Waggy, Chillo, Houghton and Butler. When I lived in Leeds I saw Best oull off a bit of skill which not only drew applause from Leeds fans but some of the Leeds players. But no cameras were there to record it. When my son played football I used to say to him if you want to see what you dad was like I always told him to look at clips of Best. Wgen he played Rugby Union I told him tomwatchnclips of Barry John to get an udea of what his dad was like. If only...
The age thing is the same with music and films. Though it is a factbthe older music and films are better of course.
I think that works both ways. A mate of mine's dad was an Old Trafford regular in the 60s and he always tells me an amusing story of how he was a kid so would get passed to the front where he could see everything. His dad would stand at the back with his mates. When something happened - a goal or sending off - what happened would get passed up the terraces in a series of Chinese whispers. So if Best beat one player and rolled the ball into the bottom corner, by the time it reached the back of the terrace he'd have beaten seven men and smashed it into the top corner. Him and his dad would be discussing the same goals at the end of the match, yet they'd be wildly different. The cameras can't prove what Best or many of the players of that era did, but likewise they can't disprove the rumours or the legends. When Ryan Giggs scored 'that' goal against Arsenal in the 1999 FA Cup semi, I remember Denis Law giving an interview and saying: "Yes, well done Ryan, but what you've got to remember is that George Best scored goals like that every single week." A simple glance at his goalscoring stats proves that to be a load of nonsense but that sort of romanticised stuff is rarely challenged when it gets freely bandied about. So while I get what you're saying, I think there are plusses and minuses for the players on that score. Out of interest, Barchullona, have you ever watched the extended highlights of the Real Madrid v Eintracht Frankfurt European Cup final in 1960? I was always a bit cynical about 'old' football until I saw that match on the old Sky Sports Classics channel. The skill levels on show completely blew me away. Di Stefano, Puskas and Gento were incredible. I with there was more TV footage of that trio!
I always love hearing the players who people rate highly in the 'all-time greatest' debates who most wouldn't think of. My three are: - Matthias Sammer. As a defender I don't think I've ever seen someone who could do everything like he could; he seemed ahead of his time. - Gheorghe Hagi, who just looked so good on the ball it was ridiculous. Whenever Brescia were playing in those early Channel 4 Italia 90 he was consistently superb. I still support Brescia to this day because of him. - Andreas Pirlo. Don't think much explanation is needed here. Few would categorise them in the all-time greats, but watching them play was never not an absolute delight.
You wouldn't put them in the top handful, but if the list were to be somewhat longer, they'd certainly be on that list. Paul Scholes...
I watched that final live as an awestruck 10 year old. It was quite an event as in pre satellite days if was the first chance to see a European Cup Final live. In fact whole FA Cup Finals had only been shown for 7 years. It was a rapidly changing world and exciting to witness. Eintracht were no mugs, they had beaten Rangers 12-1 on aggregate in the semi-final. Bill Shankly's dad dies at that game. When he recalled it you got the impression that he was thinking " what a way to go...". As for recollections, that is true. Everyone remembers Butler beating countless men on the wing before crossing for Waggy and Chillo toscore sublime goals in front of a packed swaying crowd singing and chanting at ear-splitting decibel levels. It wasn't quite like that.
The tragedy is his greatest moments weren't captured on film and only the few there can bask in their warm memories of them.
All his career? And taking which drugs constitute a drugs cheat? Doubt if he was taking any at beginning of his career and in his peak seasons. So all his career is incorrect.
From 22 asyou know as you have googled it. You also know what drug. Drugs cheat. Wipe the **** from the record books.