Off Topic Impact of Brexit on Football

You're the one who out of nowhere started accusing people of being a liar based purely on their employment and preaching violence and hatred.

[EDIT BY DHCANARY - INSULT REMOVED]

Anyway, as far as I'm concerned we live in the greatest, most tolerant and multicultural, free and inspiring country in the world. Unfortunately there will always be people opposed to that, but I am delighted that they are very much in the minority and much as I disagree with the likes of Canario, KIO, etc, at least I can see that their reasons for wanting to leave the EU are honest and good. I would hope that a tolerant, friendly, family club like Norwich wouldn't have too many of the other sort. Exception proving the rule, etc.

 

Oh for crying out loud...

There is a PM system, use it. I will delete any more of this unsavoury conversation.

 

Ok I've calmed down.

DH and the rest of the board, I apologise. I overreacted to the provocation and my comments were unnecessary. We're all adults so I appreciate that this was pointless and I am sorry.

 

Hard working honest Polish lawyers charge considerably less than the feckless overpaid crooked British ones .

 

For my part I have enjoyed this thread for the main part. I may have voted leave but would like to think that if any of the remain campaigners had shown Robs passion and knowledge around the decision, I might have changed my mind. I can see pluses and minuses still with bremain and Brexit. I know this has all been a very emotive issue for many but let's all try to keep it civil.
I have enjoyed reading many posts from all of the chief protagonists in this slightly heated exchange. Let's not get too personal OTBC!

Bah!

 

Indeed general

 

How did Britain manage to trade before entering into the E U ?
Surely it didn't take a team of 500 negotiators 100 years ?.

 

We used bayonets

 

Guys and gals,
As DH has intimated, we are happy to let this thread run it's course - on the proviso that it's done civilly.
But any more of the (totally uncalled for, imo, after all the well balanced, carefully worded comments that have gone before) name calling, or general one-on-one antagonism that has crept in and started to blight recent pages, the thread will be pulled and closed.
We certainly don't want to lose any contributors over non-football matters on the eve of a new season, that would be completely self-defeating for everyone that uses the forum.
I do hope that's loud and clear enough, in terms of backing up what DH has already said

 

He wasn't elected for the highest office he was merely elected as an MP. Yes he had a mandate, but it was far from democratic.

 

Rob sorry I though you told me you didn't label all UKIP supporters as racist. In fact I'm think I'm right in saying that when I did say you were labeling UKIP supporters as racists,you accused me of misquoting you.

 

Deleted

 

Having just rejoined this after the fireworks, I'd like to commend DH's intervention to get things back on track. Much better than bans and all that. This has been a good thread and probably a good 'outlet of emotions' for all of us.

 

Adios from Farage
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...kip-leader?CMP=twt_a-politics_b-gdnukpolitics

 

There was talk of closing it down, Rick, but hopefully the chief protagonists, who know who they are, can continue the debate in adult fashion so hopefully no need for such Draconian measures

 

I don't label UKIP supporters racist - read the post you quoted again. I label UKIP as racist and if someone is thinking about supporting them, they should consider whether they are prepared to shoulder the burden of that particular label. There is a good chance that many UKIP supporters are not racist, but in supporting them and that cause, UKIP supporters legitimise those views whether they hold them or not.

 

OK but why is UKIP racist ? Because it wants controlled immigration ? , that hardly makes sense. I accept that some of it's supporters are, I'd even accept that it probably has proportionally more racists supporters than some other parties, but I really don't see how you can say it's racists. This is merely a label its opponents put on it because they want the public to believe it is racist to disuade people from voting for it. In the case of the Conservatives and Labour they're particularly concerned in losing more of their supporters to it and are keen to get those that have already moved back. All the main stream parties spout off about listening to peoples concerns about mass immigration, but as soon as someone articulates the public's concerns they're immediately label as being racists. The EU is as racists as UKIP if not more so.

 

No, UKIP is racist because it espouses racist policies. Did you not see that disgusting poster? They also support discriminating against people on the basis of their nationality and race. And not just their policies - just have a quick google to see how many of their leaders and representatives hold and vocalise unambiguously racist views.

It is ridiculous to say the EU is discriminatory - the EU has done more to fight discrimination than any other country in the world. The EU is the direct opposite of UKIP in relation to that. I suspect you have been taking the words of Nigel Farage a little too uncritically if you believe that, but I also imagine you are smart enough not to and are just saying that for effect.

This is the problem with the way you are treating this - someone says "UKIP and its leaders espouse racist policies" and you scream "they said that people who are concerned about mass immigration are racist". Er, no they didn't. In fact, nobody did. This is all gross exaggeration to deflect from the very real problem that UKIP are, in fact, racist. And by supporting UKIP people legitimise that viewpoint, in many ways accidentally because the leaders of UKIP are clever, manipulative and know how to play to people's fears. UKIP squeal and wriggle and tell everyone "they're telling you you are all racist for supporting us", but if you look at the situation uncritically you will see that virtually no leading individual has ever accused UKIP supporters (as a whole) as racist. Quite clearly, they all aren't

I guess that's what I find so disappointing, is that UKIP present a façade of being the "people's party", but in reality they (until today) were led by a London City stockbroker who is as much part of the "establishment" as any member of the Tories or Labour and if you actually look at their underlying policies they are so far from socialist in any way that they couldn't be less "for the people". They then shout about "legitimate concerns about immigration" which is enough for, unfortunately, a large number of people in our country who I very much doubt are racist or fascist (particularly the latter - many are quite clearly working class) and yet they are suckered by toady looking creep with a permanent undrunk pint because they think they could have a beer with him. Newsflash: no, you couldn't, you'd think he was a massive bellend who nurses his pint for the entire time.

 

Well I can't possibly reply to all the issues you comment on without writing an essay. So let ts just concentrate on your first 2 statements

I notice you use the word espouses, not sure why as I suspect many on here won't know what this word means. The definition as I understand it and please correct me if I'm wrong is 'to express support for (a cause, belief, etc.)'

So what you are saying is UKIP is racist because it supports racist policies.

Could you perhaps be more specific and tell me what racist policies UKIP supports ?

Could you also clarify why you say UKIP discriminates against people on the basis of their nationality and race ?

You might also want to edit your post as I suspect when you typed

you didn't actually mean this.

 

I think the people on this forum are pretty erudite () for footy fans!

See the second sentence you quoted. And then also the comments of its leaders and representatives. It only takes a quick google to get lots of information on UKIP's underlying policies (behind the Farage "oh so jolly" persona), clearly I am not going to waste space by posting them in full.

Because Farage specifically said that it was UKIP's policy to discriminate against people who were not British in relation to getting jobs (again, you only need to google it - I'm not playing the "I need EVIDENCE, your EVIDENCE is not good enough" - it's all very easy to find because it's there and public.

Thanks, yeah that wasn't the best wording, though I hoped it was clear I was responding to your relevant comment. Adjusted to:

"It is ridiculous to say the EU is discriminatory - the EU has done more to fight discrimination than any other country in the world."

There are reams of high quality EU legislation aimed at preventing discrimination. Don't get me wrong, I am opposed to a lot of the EU's legislation and I do think it needs reform (did you see the ex-Netherlands' PM's comments in the EU Parliament, which I think were spot on "it needs reform"). But the anti-discrimination stuff is absolutely, undeniably, virtually faultless.