Off Topic If teachers are so 'fragile', this confirms why they should NOT be employed

[polyphemus]

You have all heard it, particularly from members of my, geriatric, generation.

'I got caned at school, and it didn't do me any harm'.

And it really is true. I did and it didn't.

What may also be true is that it didn't do any good either.

And, in retrospect, I do wonder if asking adults to beat children with a stick, or whatever, was a good thing for that adult.
It also sent an odd message to some that beating was somehow acceptable.

But all this is to some degree immaterial.
The banning of the cane in schools may well have been campaigned for by left wing academics, but it was Parliament that changed the Law.

IF anyone feels that it would solve SOCIETY's problems by bringing this Dickensian practice back, then by all means campaign for this.
But I have to say that judging by the response so far, it's going to be a hard job.

 

[Owld Feller]

Yes. Lets hit kids to tell them that erm hitting is wrong.

It's becoming, increasingly, clear that if your choice to portray yourself as a follower of Transvestism (Krankie) started when you were at school that this would have led to your being bullied and then (in an attempt to turn the tables) your decision to join the police force.

 

[wtdog]

Taking away a mobile phone causes way more stress for a kid than the threat of violence

 

[Evil Jimmy Krankie]

It's becoming, increasingly, clear that if your choice to portray yourself as a follower of Transvestism (Krankie) started when you were at school that this would have led to your being bullied and then (in an attempt to turn the tables) your decision to join the police force.

I choose to wear women’s clothing in private. I couldn’t have got away with it in an all boys school in the 1970s and 80s. Probably would have got the cane for it.

 

[polyphemus]

It's becoming, increasingly, clear that if your choice to portray yourself as a follower of Transvestism (Krankie) started when you were at school that this would have led to your being bullied and then (in an attempt to turn the tables) your decision to join the police force.

Far be it from me to try to teach anything to anyone and particularly to someone who has no respect for teachers, except perhaps for ultra right wing child beaters' (I believe that some MAY still exist inside Private Education).

But might I suggest that if you wish to make a convincing point, it might improve you debating case, just a tad, were you to avoid being 'discourteous' to those you might like to convince.

Otherwise I believe that you are at serious risk of appearing to be something of a turd, whereas I'm sure that, deep down, you are really and nice old soul just looking for a friend.

 

[old lads fan]

The worst case of mistreatment of a child I've ever seen was at school in 3rd year juniors, that was 9 and 10 year old kids for younger readers.
Our teacher had gone out during a lesson for a few minutes and one of the boys in the class walked over to the teachers cupboard and got a cane out and was making swishing movements. The Headmaster was passing and saw what was happening, he burst through the door and he was raging, red faced and shouting at the top of his voice. He grabbed the cane and forcibly held the boys right hand out and thrashed him 3 times, this was a 9 year old boy, the boy was screaming and all the girls in the class were screaming in sheer terror.
That act of punishment has stayed with me to this day, not cos I'm a soft ****e but because it was a violent attack, the look on the Headmasters face was sheer rage. Every kid in the school knew of his temper but we had never seen it. The boys dad came to the school but I don't know the outcome of what happened but I think he was threatened cos it never happened again while I was there.
The school was Stanhope Road Juniors in South Shields and it was 1968 and this type of violence was dished out to children in every school in the country.

 

[rooch 3]

Taking away a mobile phone causes way more stress for a kid than the threat of violence

The worst case of mistreatment of a child I've ever seen was at school in 3rd year juniors, that was 9 and 10 year old kids for younger readers.
Our teacher had gone out during a lesson for a few minutes and one of the boys in the class walked over to the teachers cupboard and got a cane out and was making swishing movements. The Headmaster was passing and saw what was happening, he burst through the door and he was raging, red faced and shouting at the top of his voice. He grabbed the cane and forcibly held the boys right hand out and thrashed him 3 times, this was a 9 year old boy, the boy was screaming and all the girls in the class were screaming in sheer terror.
That act of punishment has stayed with me to this day, not cos I'm a soft ****e but because it was a violent attack, the look on the Headmasters face was sheer rage. Every kid in the school knew of his temper but we had never seen it. The boys dad came to the school but I don't know the outcome of what happened but I think he was threatened cos it never happened again while I was there.
The school was Stanhope Road Juniors in South Shields and it was 1968 and this type of violence was dished out to children in every school in the country.

It was certainly dished out at mine my mate came out of borstal after 3 weeks for stealing lead off roofs and the headmaster punched him black and blue there wasn't a inch on his chest that wasn't black that was 1966 at Diamond Hall.

 

[Kittenmittons]

The worst case of mistreatment of a child I've ever seen was at school in 3rd year juniors, that was 9 and 10 year old kids for younger readers.
Our teacher had gone out during a lesson for a few minutes and one of the boys in the class walked over to the teachers cupboard and got a cane out and was making swishing movements. The Headmaster was passing and saw what was happening, he burst through the door and he was raging, red faced and shouting at the top of his voice. He grabbed the cane and forcibly held the boys right hand out and thrashed him 3 times, this was a 9 year old boy, the boy was screaming and all the girls in the class were screaming in sheer terror.
That act of punishment has stayed with me to this day, not cos I'm a soft ****e but because it was a violent attack, the look on the Headmasters face was sheer rage. Every kid in the school knew of his temper but we had never seen it. The boys dad came to the school but I don't know the outcome of what happened but I think he was threatened cos it never happened again while I was there.
The school was Stanhope Road Juniors in South Shields and it was 1968 and this type of violence was dished out to children in every school in the country.

My dad puts it simply - you might accept that it happened, but if you caught someone doing it to your kid, you'd have belted them.

No place for it in a decent society. Always amazes me how many people advocate corporal and capital punishment, which is pretty much only practised in places you absolutely wouldn't want to emigrate

 

[Nacho]

It was certainly dished out at mine my mate came out of borstal after 3 weeks for stealing lead off roofs and the headmaster punched him black and blue there wasn't a inch on his chest that wasn't black that was 1966 at Diamond Hall.

What were parents attitudes about teachers dishing out physical punishment at the time? It seems like it was an acceptable part of education but if anyone touched my kids I'd deck them. Seems odd to me that it was allowed to go on for so long.

 

[rooch 3]

I think kids would behave a lot better if parents didn't keep repeating themselves over and over again and just give out the punishment with out argument like do that again and I will take your phone

What were parents attitudes about teachers dishing out physical punishment at the time? It seems like it was an acceptable part of education but if anyone touched my kids I'd deck them. Seems odd to me that it was allowed to go on for so long.

Parents believed the teachers were always right I found out just a few years ago that most of my teachers at Havelock were ex army and they took sadistic relish to batter the f uck out of you.

 

[Nacho]

I think kids would behave a lot better if parents didn't keep repeating themselves over and over again and just give out the punishment with out argument like do that again and I will take your phone

Parents believed the teachers were always right I found out just a few years ago that most of my teachers at Havelock were ex army and they took sadistic relish to batter the f uck out of you.

Agreed, my wife's more lenient with our little girl but I'm more like you get one chance and you're going on the step. Which works well for us btw, she's always upset about being on it and sorry afterwards. I think if you reason with them too much they don't really believe any punishment is actually coming.

I'm not that militant about it but I'm not one for the gentle parenting method where you never tell them off and just patiently explain to them what they did wrong. Recipe for disaster imo.

 

[polyphemus]

What were parents attitudes about teachers dishing out physical punishment at the time? It seems like it was an acceptable part of education but if anyone touched my kids I'd deck them. Seems odd to me that it was allowed to go on for so long.

If you had any sense, you didn't mention it at home.
That way you avoided the inevitable question - 'what were you doing wrong'.
Same with the police.
An old boy who's beat was along Suffolk St and Villete Rd, served out instant justice with the back of his hand.
Tell them that at home and you got another one.

But you should bear in mind that these were different days.
Most parents slapped/hit or used a belt on their children.
It was a socially acceptable way of disciplining them.

In retrospect I had some sympathy for them when it became my turn to be a parent.
I never actually struck any of them at any time, (though it was legal then), but I was driven close more than once.

 

[Owld Feller]

You have all heard it, particularly from members of my, geriatric, generation.

'I got caned at school, and it didn't do me any harm'.

And it really is true. I did and it didn't.

What may also be true is that it didn't do any good either.

And, in retrospect, I do wonder if asking adults to beat children with a stick, or whatever, was a good thing for that adult.
It also sent an odd message to some that beating was somehow acceptable.

But all this is to some degree immaterial.
The banning of the cane in schools may well have been campaigned for by left wing academics, but it was Parliament that changed the Law.

Far be it from me to try to teach anything to anyone and particularly to someone who has no respect for teachers, except perhaps for ultra right wing child beaters' (I believe that some MAY still exist inside Private Education).

But might I suggest that if you wish to make a convincing point, it might improve you debating case, just a tad, were you to avoid being 'discourteous' to those you might like to convince.

Otherwise I believe that you are at serious risk of appearing to be something of a turd, whereas I'm sure that, deep down, you are really and nice old soul just looking for a friend.

You have all heard it, particularly from members of my, geriatric, generation.

'I got caned at school, and it didn't do me any harm'.

And it really is true. I did and it didn't.

What may also be true is that it didn't do any good either.

And, in retrospect, I do wonder if asking adults to beat children with a stick, or whatever, was a good thing for that adult.
It also sent an odd message to some that beating was somehow acceptable.

But all this is to some degree immaterial.
The banning of the cane in schools may well have been campaigned for by left wing academics, but it was Parliament that changed the Law.

IF anyone feels that it would solve SOCIETY's problems by bringing this Dickensian practice back, then by all means campaign for this.
But I have to say that judging by the response so far, it's going to be a hard job.

 

[Owld Feller]

My reply to the @polyphemus posts (shown above) is as follows:

"The FIRST rule of debating is to establish if the other party wishes to engage or is merely expressing opinions.

In my case the latter is true NOT the former, with which people could agree or disagree, as is their prerogative, because my opinions were based upon what I witnessed at the time, not upon only beliefs based upon what others may have influenced, nor was I attempting to change anyone's thoughts on the topic.

You can, therefore place your references to 'ultra right wing child beaters' in the bucket labelled 'irrelevant', along with your intended insult' which was compounded by further condescension - I just thought these to be unbecoming of you..

The obvious problem with only having one eye is that it can give a somewhat blinkered view on things."

For some reason this reply kept being included as a quote in the post above, despite numerous attempts to edit.

 

[marcusblackcat]

I'm, also, old enough to remember when the teacher's unions flexed their muscles and were allowed to determine the curriculum along with many other items that were previously laid down by the D.O.E.

This suited the 'newbies' no end, so when linked to the banning of corporal punishment in schools and their liberal attitudes to discipline imho this has resulted in the mess we see today.

? Completely contradictory to the "fragile" comment. The video I watched shows teachers who have been bullied - verbally and physically - all down to the reasoning you have given here.

I gave up teaching because of that. Even at College it happens. When you teach 2 core subjects to people who have had to come back and do it in order to get anywhere in life. Kids can be nasty and parents are the main culprits which allow this. Teachers, every one of them in that video, deserve praise.

How I didn't knock some of them out is way beyond me - had parents having a go at schools for disciplining their kids for being naughty. What choice tdo teachers have.

Seen teachers getting punched and kicked and you literally have to stand there and do nothing - If they retalliate they get sacked. The pupils get a pat on the back from their parents.

Not exactly sure what you expect

 

[marcusblackcat]

Yes. Lets hit kids to tell them that erm hitting is wrong.

What would your suggestion be? They smack you in the mouth - you say "Now Timothy, that isn't the right thing to do, I think you should apologise to me"

You have to "hurt" them somehow - Discipline was far better when I went to school (cane etc.) kids were actually fearful to break rules. now they just don't care - and this is down to a complete lack of discipline

 

[marcusblackcat]

I choose to wear women’s clothing in private. I couldn’t have got away with it in an all boys school in the 1970s and 80s. Probably would have got the cane for it.

Absolutely you would have - but that was down to a completel lack of acceptance of such things. Times have changed. Wearing women's clothes is one thing, being LGBT (or whatever the term is now - sorry I can;t keep up) the same - lack of acceptance from society. But punching a teacher square in the face? Slighlty different to wearing women's clothes

 

[Evil Jimmy Krankie]

Absolutely you would have - but that was down to a completel lack of acceptance of such things. Times have changed. Wearing women's clothes is one thing, being LGBT (or whatever the term is now - sorry I can;t keep up) the same - lack of acceptance from society. But punching a teacher square in the face? Slighlty different to wearing women's clothes

My original comment was very much tongue in cheek. I’m a 53 year old man. I’ve never worn women’s clothes. Still not sure where you’re coming from though. Where did I say it’s acceptable to hit a teacher? You seem to have anger problems related to the disciplining of children along with that owld fella gadgie.
I do not advocate physical violence or corporal punishment to discipline kids. It happened to me when I was at school. Despite what I ended up doing for a living, all school gave me was a dislike of authority figures. Getting the cane did not teach me anything positive at all.

 

[marcusblackcat]

My original comment was very much tongue in cheek. I’m a 53 year old man. I’ve never worn women’s clothes. Still not sure where you’re coming from though. Where did I say it’s acceptable to hit a teacher? You seem to have anger problems related to the disciplining of children along with that owld fella gadgie.
I do not advocate physical violence or corporal punishment to discipline kids. It happened to me when I was at school. Despite what I ended up doing for a living, all school gave me was a dislike of authority figures. Getting the cane did not teach me anything positive at all.

You have absolutely no right to label me with that simply because I make a comment stating that kids were better behaved when they were disciplined.

Discipline may have given YOU that impression but you seem to think everyone has the same experience/opinion that you do (if I want to generalise like you have with me. ) - the discipline I had at school made me respect the teachers and gave me a want to learn and NOT be the person on the end of that cane. Different people have different experiences. I know people I went to school with who have the same opinion you do. But they were the ones who always had issues at school and were violent bullies themselves. Not labelling you there mind as I don't do that. God forbid I tar you with a brush simply because you make a flippant comment!!

I have 2 children - both got their backsides tapped when naughty - they both have respect for me and their mother. They both love us and are well behaved children.

And, fwiw, I didn;t say you said it was acceptable to hit a teacher, I simply made the comparison nowadays of "male dressing as a woman" and hitting a teacher - which was my point. You'd have been caned for things that weren't accepted back then as well as violence towards staff and other pupils.

 

[Evil Jimmy Krankie]

You have absolutely no right to label me with that simply because I make a comment stating that kids were better behaved when they were disciplined.

Discipline may have given YOU that impression but you seem to think everyone has the same experience/opinion that you do (if I want to generalise like you have with me. ) - the discipline I had at school made me respect the teachers and gave me a want to learn and NOT be the person on the end of that cane. Different people have different experiences. I know people I went to school with who have the same opinion you do. But they were the ones who always had issues at school and were violent bullies themselves. Not labelling you there mind as I don't do that. God forbid I tar you with a brush simply because you make a flippant comment!!

I have 2 children - both got their backsides tapped when naughty - they both have respect for me and their mother. They both love us and are well behaved children.

And, fwiw, I didn;t say you said it was acceptable to hit a teacher, I simply made the comparison nowadays of "male dressing as a woman" and hitting a teacher - which was my point. You'd have been caned for things that weren't accepted back then as well as violence towards staff and other pupils.

I was caned at school. I think I made that clear. For not conforming to what the school wanted. I was never disruptive or cheeky or anything like that. The only thing that I didn’t do was homework. Was that worth getting my arse tanned?
I left school with a dislike of authority figures. I left school without a desire to learn. I also left school with exactly the same amount of qualifications that I started with at five years old. In short I am a product of an appalling education system. And I’m not the only one who will think like that.
I have never had a days unemployment in my life. I have never been in trouble with the police. I’ve never done drugs. I am generally respectful to people I meet. I have held down responsible jobs my entire working life. And that is despite being told by my headmaster that the best job I could ever hope for would be cleaning the toilets in Sunderland town centre. How to motivate and encourage your pupils eh?
The cane and corporal punishment did not teach me, as a child, any respect or teach me how to learn. I come from a solid family background and I had that to fall back on. So god only knows what it did to kids who were taught ‘respect’ in that way who came from broken and dysfunctional families.
I have done ok in life not because of my education but generally in spite if it.
And I didn’t label you with anything. Your post where you said that kids should be caned did it for you.