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Discussion in 'Celtic' started by Mind The Duck, Feb 12, 2014.

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  1. Null

    Null Well-Known Member
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    Whale oil beef hooked...say that in a local accent.
     
    #221
    Null, Feb 16, 2014
  2. Null

    Null Well-Known Member
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    Had to order right angle connections...raging that it doesn't come with them
     
    #222
    Null, Feb 16, 2014
  3. RebelBhoy

    RebelBhoy Moderator
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    Not in this local accent.

    [video=youtube_share;Zfdi_PWV-ZY]http://youtu.be/Zfdi_PWV-ZY[/video]
     
    #223
    RebelBhoy, Feb 16, 2014
  4. DevAdvocate

    DevAdvocate Gigging bassist

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    Reb it was you who made a point of saying that the IRA and INLA are different, not me. I was going to ask you what the difference is and why does it matter?
     
    #224
    DevAdvocate, Feb 16, 2014
  5. RebelBhoy

    RebelBhoy Moderator
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    I had thought I had explained why it matters in the post in which you asked the question.

    I'm glad I posted what I did but I'll try and clarify if I am able.

    Pud said:

    The song is not about the IRA. The song is about the hunger strikers. This comprised IRA and INLA captives.

    The point wasn't about the difference between the two organisations, rather that it wasn't an IRA campaign, nor was it an INLA campaign, rather a pan-Republican approach in order to address the particular issue of the criminalising of Republicans. As I said, this was an intentional action to make it absolutely clear that the hunger strikes were not an "IRA thing". This was made absolutely clear when those on hunger strike and other blanket men were put forward for election as election candidates under the Anti H Block ticket as opposed to Sinn Fein or the Irish Republican Socialist Party to whom the IRA and INLA were politically aligned.

    That is the issue that the song is about. The criminalising of Republicans. That is why this song is being used by Celtic supporters to protest against the criminalising of Irish Republican sentiment.

    With that in mind, that is why I say you have to make a leap from the content of the song to the subject of the song and then on to the other actions of the people referenced in the song before you can find offence.

    Now I am not telling anyone they can't make that leap. That is entirely their prerogative. But to assert that that there isn't that leap to make is entirely untrue, and to accept that falsehood has ramifications on the application of this Act.


    I hope I have been clearer.

    So the answer to your question is that in terms of this song, the difference doesn't matter because the song is neither about the IRA, nor the INLA, rather the Hunger strikers. It only becomes relevant when the song is misrepresented.

    The IRA (pira) and INLA were born from 2 different splits at different times from the Official IRA.
     
    #225
    RebelBhoy, Feb 16, 2014
  6. rogueleader

    rogueleader suave gringo

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    Will you be fitting a matching toilet roll of honour ?
     
    #226
    rogueleader, Feb 16, 2014
  7. Big Audio Dynamite

    Big Audio Dynamite Well-Known Member

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    As half time approaches, it looks like your predicted outcome for this thread is coming to fruition <ok>
     
    #227
    Big Audio Dynamite, Feb 16, 2014
  8. DevAdvocate

    DevAdvocate Gigging bassist

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    The song is about men who were all members of proscribed organisations, plenty of proscribed organisations are not Republican in nature or poltical beliefs, yet the law applies to anyone, even people who would sing songs in praise of Al Qaeda suicide bombers. How is that a law that criminalising Republicans when it can be used against anyone who sings in praise of proscribed organisations -or members of those organisations? Simply put I don't believe it is.
     
    #228
    DevAdvocate, Feb 16, 2014
  9. RebelBhoy

    RebelBhoy Moderator
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    I'm sorry, this doesn't make sense to me.
     
    #229
    RebelBhoy, Feb 16, 2014
  10. rogueleader

    rogueleader suave gringo

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    Puds joke plumbing new depths fiasco <laugh>
     
    #230
    rogueleader, Feb 16, 2014

  11. rogueleader

    rogueleader suave gringo

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    It not against the law to be a Republican, is it ?
     
    #231
    rogueleader, Feb 16, 2014
  12. RebelBhoy

    RebelBhoy Moderator
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    No.
     
    #232
    RebelBhoy, Feb 16, 2014
  13. rogueleader

    rogueleader suave gringo

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    I`m genuinely not following you logic here
     
    #233
    rogueleader, Feb 17, 2014
  14. RebelBhoy

    RebelBhoy Moderator
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    The hunger strikes were not done in the name of either the INLA or IRA.

    It was a movement in and of itself.
     
    #234
    RebelBhoy, Feb 17, 2014
  15. rogueleader

    rogueleader suave gringo

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    I get that and could agree with much of what you say if the hunger strikers had been wholly uninvolved in violence in the name of their cause. I would even extend that to violence which was only directed against the military force which they seen as occupying their country.
     
    #235
    rogueleader, Feb 17, 2014
  16. RebelBhoy

    RebelBhoy Moderator
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    RL, that is exactly against whom their acts were directed.

    But i wasn't saying what i did to distance them from their actions or to justify them, rather that the cause of the hunger strikers is what is being commemorated in that song.
     
    #236
    RebelBhoy, Feb 17, 2014
  17. rogueleader

    rogueleader suave gringo

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    Do you mean their acts as hunger strikers or their acts as members of the ira, inla ?
     
    #237
    rogueleader, Feb 17, 2014
  18. anportmorbhoy

    anportmorbhoy Well-Known Member

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    I still dont see where the need to sing it at Celtic games comes in though.

    I get the whole freedom of speach thing. I'm all for it

    But for right or for wrong links to "the Irish troubles" paints the support in a bad light - through the ignorance of those listening/hearing on the main - none the less it paints us in a bad light.

    There simply is no need. Plenty of good Celtic songs to sing.

    And you can still be a Repubican too.

    <ok>
     
    #238
    anportmorbhoy, Feb 17, 2014
  19. Patience

    Patience Spastic Arab

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    It has no place being sung anymore at Celtic games. If it takes fans being arrested then so be it. I'm there to watch the football, socialize with friends before and after, and to not take my political beliefs, whatever they are, to a public arena where it's undoubtedly going to be in the presence of other people who don't hold similar views.

    I sing Celtic songs, in support of Celtic players past and present and in adulation of the Club, and at no point does it result in my chanting or singing ditties about hunger strikers or unfurling carefully constructed banners with political slogans designed to wind up those that don't agree with me. Even more so if I know that the said ditties aren't allowed or could result in my being banned from the ground of the team I claim to love.

    To try and argue different by offering up in depth semantics about what each song actually means is just silly. MOST people aren't there to promote or argue a political agenda, so they don't actually care. They'd just much rather not have to hear it.

    "Don't do that - if you do, you run the risk of being arrested"

    "Ok well i'll do it anyway"

    Gets arrested, then moans about it.

    How tiring <doh>
     
    #239
    Patience, Feb 17, 2014
  20. Null

    Null Well-Known Member
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    #240
    Null, Feb 17, 2014
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