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HUW JENKINS OBE

Discussion in 'Swansea City' started by DragonPhilljack, Sep 25, 2015.

  1. Matthew Bound Still Lurks

    Matthew Bound Still Lurks Well-Known Member

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    Can't argue with your post but I will say watching football in Germany has always been cheaper and probably more enjoyable than the fare we have on offer over here certainly recently. I have a horrible feeling the Club is on a downward trajectory and that will continue for as long as the sellouts and yanks are still stinking the place but like smoking the Club would be hard to give up and they won't be here forever nor me but the Club will survive .Season ticket sales are but a very small proportion of income and I'm hopeful that when the bastards have sold off the saleable assets then they'll be offski, a quick flip is the term I believe is used.
     
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  2. FrankfurterBlue

    FrankfurterBlue Well-Known Member

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    WOW!!!! A quick flip is when you buy something, get some cash out of it and sell it on at a profit. Unless the yanks have put in for huge management charges or paid themselves huge dividends, they haven't taken anything out....and they need to sell on for a total club value of £100 million to see their investment simply returned. let alone any income on that investment. Is the club worth hat now....and maybe was it ever worth that much?
     
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  3. Stumpy

    Stumpy Well-Known Member

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    That's a real simplistic view there FB,

    Flipping usually just relates to property where an individual buys-low, tidies-up, then sells-higher, the flip bit relates to the period of time taken, simples.

    Asset stripping, buy a business, realise and systematically convert 'value assets' into extractable form, extract profit as dividend.

    In business 'value assets' can be anything, stock, property, client list, staff. The art is in recognizing then converting them into a form you can get your hands on. In football, value assets are the players. Some have more value than others and they are usually the ones converted ready for extraction first.

    In the case of the Swans, the value of Williams, Sigurdson, Llorente, Cork for example, were converted into cash, through their sale. Their value and quality, far out weighed that of the players brought in to 'replace them', Messa, Clucass, Bony, A Ayew together with a couple of children, Abraham and Sanchez. The difference between the realised value of the outs minus the purchase value of the ins creates the profit to be extracted as dividends.

    This window:
    Out: Realised value, Fabianski, Ki, Messa (waste of time), soon to go Bony (ditto Messa), A Ayew (Ditto Messa), J Ayew, Fernadez, Kyle Bartley probably Alfie Mawson and Narsingh.
    In: Purchase value Joel Asoro from L1 Sunderland, Jordi Govea.
    Realized value - purchase value = created profit = Dividend pay-out, simples.

    This process will be repeated at each transfer window until the realised value equates to the purchase when the club will be sold as a 'going concern' with potential.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
  4. ccfcremotesupport

    ccfcremotesupport Well-Known Member

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    Not sure how much of that has gone on, or will go on. Suppose the audited accounts would tell.

    As has been repeatedly said, the first £40M of savings or player sales this year simply plugs the funding gap from last year to this. None of that will be extracted as dividends, as they can only be paid out from profits (or retained profits). Therefore, no profits, no dividends.

    If they've put any money in as part of buying the club, they can extract that as repayment of loans, but that isn't them making a profit, just getting their money back.

    I'm sure they are getting money out, just not on the scale people think. Certainly not all of the money generated by sales.
     
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  5. Stumpy

    Stumpy Well-Known Member

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    Who has repeatedly said this CCF? what is the source of your/their assertion

    Your right of course CCF, that's not 'making a profit' its 'Corporate raiding' where a purchased business loans the purchase value back to the purchasers in the form of 'open ended' un-regulated loans. Effectively the business funds its own purchase. Liverpool and Man Utd are high profile examples of businesses which paying for their own sale/purchase. Man City and Chelsea owners didn't charge loans or leans to the clubs they bought, choosing the profit to remain in the club.

    Although legislated against in Europe, this form of corporate 'Raiding' is entirely legal in the UK. It is considered standard practice.

    So, with that done and after they've loaned the purchase p[rice back from the business the new owners make an immediate profit by invoicing their new business for their time and efforts of buying it and for 'other services' rendered. This business pays for these services thus paying a 'created' profit to the new owners.

    I'm sure they are too CCF, so what scale do you think people think they are taking money out of the club? Surely the amount is related to the process I highlighted in my previous post.
    After overhead payments,
    Value assets converted into profit through sales, minus, purchase value of cheaper replacements, equals, created profit

    Also add profits from season tickets, merchandise, Liberty stadium (rents to Swans and Ospreys, music events etc), payments from franchises, food and vittles. parachute payments, EFL payments, TV payments. There is a healthy profit to be extracted even in the championship.
     
    #65
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
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  6. ccfcremotesupport

    ccfcremotesupport Well-Known Member

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    Me. I've said it a number of times.

    The TV revenue from last year to this (including parachute payments) is around £40M.

    So assuming all other income remains the same, outgoings have to go down by £40M to be in the same end of year financial position as last year, or continue to maintain the outgoings of last year and see your end of year position be £40M lower than last year.
     
    #66
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  7. Stumpy

    Stumpy Well-Known Member

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    Agree there CCF, with a reduction in income there has to be a proportional reduction in outgoings. Can see players like Bony, A Ayew being given away just to offload their mega wages.

    Anyway, its only this year, next year we'll be dining with you guys at the top table, maybe not <laugh>
     
    #67
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  8. ccfcremotesupport

    ccfcremotesupport Well-Known Member

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    Hey Stumpy, please don't take my comments as gloating, as I can empathise with what you're going through. A few dud signings by Malkie, then OGS bloating the squad to 40+ meant it took 3 years of surgery to get our squad back on track from a budget and capability perspective.

    We were fortunate that Colin landed when he did, as were heading for L1. He stabilised things in the first 6 months and worked his magic in the freebie market and created a team out of some rag tag individuals. He's added a bit more since then but not gone for big names or big earners. I don't know we'll have enough to keep us up this season, but we should be in a reasonable position financially and from a playing side if we come back down. Surprising what a man with a bit of footballing nous can do for a club (love him or hate him).

    And to be fair to Tan, he's listened to Warnock and reined in his madcap ideas. He's also converted nearly two thirds of the debt owed to him into equity. He always said he wanted to do that once the Langston debt was sorted, which it was when Sam was outed as the man behind them. He wants us debt free by 2020, so £50M to go in 2 years.

    Potter looks to have a very different approach to the way the game is played, but is a similar animal to Warnock, with his focus and self belief. I feel he has the ability to turn the footballing side of things around (though maybe not this year), but don't think he'll get the relationship with your board as colin has with Tan.

    Good luck with the coming season, on and off the field.
     
    #68
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  9. Stumpy

    Stumpy Well-Known Member

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    I don't have a problem with you at all CCF and apologies to you if I come over as if I do. We support different clubs, mines the best though <laugh> so you're able to see things from a distance so its good to hear what you think. You've never been offensive and I don't think your gloating at all.

    For me, I like to explain why I think things and I put thoughts and ideas up for debate. I like to here what others thoughts and ideas are because listening is as important as speaking, its another good way to learn, even when I don't agree with what I'm hearing.
     
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  10. swanee

    swanee Well-Known Member

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    It`s a pity Stumpy that there`s a few on here who do not listen to others views, but only spout their own ignorant bile.
     
    #70

  11. DragonPhilljack

    DragonPhilljack Well-Known Member

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    There's money going out of the club alright, that much is obvious, being relagated has made it more difficult, but looking at the sales and transfer policy should tell you enough, while revenue will be down some £40 to 50 million this season, so will the overheads, most of the big earners are in advanced transfer talkes, and once they are gone, the academy players will replace them, that's where the killing is being made this season with profit, they may throw in a few cheap experienced Championship players, but the funds spent will be peanuts, whether it's enough to compete, remains to be seen, I'm not so sure though........... <ok>
     
    #71
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  12. FrankfurterBlue

    FrankfurterBlue Well-Known Member

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    Stumpy, all the points you make are valid but I haven't seen anything like any sort of profit in the Swans for some time. For most (all?) recent years, there has been operational loss (including all the different profits you mention) bolstered by transfer profits. And as I said, unless there are tasty management charges, there have been no dividends. And, by the way, book profit on players will be added to by the depreciation of their initial cost- unless someone makes a damn good case for revaluation...but that should show in the accounts too, somewhere. So no cash back to the yanks. Now, I am not sure, but many of the transfers you quote are in the next set of accounts? So much will be shown by the next published accounts as to dividends and/or management charges. Swansea City are debt free (virtually) is assume that the yanks haven't raised loans to pay themselves their purchase price?
    Like CCF, I'm not gloating just a bit confused as to where profits will come from and interested to see how the yanks square their circle.
    Anything they take out has to be shown as such in the accounts and there's been little so far.
     
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  13. FrankfurterBlue

    FrankfurterBlue Well-Known Member

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    By the way, I didn't use the word 'flip'.....I was objecting to its use!!!!
     
    #73
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  14. trundles left foot

    trundles left foot Well-Known Member

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    The thing is here for me is that everyone is accepting that these thieving bastards are doing everything by the book, Well the way the took over the club, the lies that have come out about the purchase and other dealings, there is no doubt that they will be syphoning money off behind the scenes and underhand, These are not honest men, so yes the books may read that everything is above board the reality is a totally different thing. Robbing thieving scum who are ruin our club.
     
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  15. ValleyGraduate12

    ValleyGraduate12 Aberdude's Puppet
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    They're here to make as much money as possible and they don't give a toss how they achieve it.
     
    #75
  16. FrankfurterBlue

    FrankfurterBlue Well-Known Member

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    Can't help thinking that the yanks were lied to (allegedly) BEFORE the deal was struck. Not sure, therefore, why they stick with HJ, who must have been involved. But maybe they are happy with how things are going?
    TLF...you're now implying that the auditors are compliant.
     
    #76
  17. swanseaandproud

    swanseaandproud Well-Known Member

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    I'm the same on here surmising and saying things that quite frankly not anyone of us have a clue about......Apart from on the pitch we look to be in good shape financially and should things improve on the pitch under Potts, Curt and reed then we dont have anything to worry about......The last financial we saw not that long ago showed us in good shape and we were only one of two clubs in the premiership to make a profit,,,,,
     
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  18. keith gatebroth

    keith gatebroth Well-Known Member

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    Jenkins gave Shelvey a new four year contract in July 2015 worth £3.6 million a year in wages. He was forced to offload him six months later for £12 million in the Jan 2016 transfer window, due to a cash flow problem, to see the club through to the end of the season.
     
    #78
  19. PGFWhite

    PGFWhite Well-Known Member

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    If we are in good shape financially, why have we shipped out Ki, Leon Britton, Angel Rangel, Luicas Fabianski, Andre Ayew, Kenji Gorre, Borja Baston, and Roque Mesa and replaced them with a couple of 12 year olds?
     
    #79
  20. Stumpy

    Stumpy Well-Known Member

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    Add Williams, Sigurdsson, Llorente, Cork, Kingsley

    please log in to view this image
     
    #80

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