Hurst OUT
- Thread starter Westlake33
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Thank god for that.
I didn't take ANY joy starting this thread back when I did, but thank GOD this is one chapter finished.
I think we can all agree he had to go, and we move on.
I hope Hurst learns from this in his next venture, and will be interested to see who he manages next / how he performs.
I didn't take ANY joy starting this thread back when I did, but thank GOD this is one chapter finished.
I think we can all agree he had to go, and we move on.
I hope Hurst learns from this in his next venture, and will be interested to see who he manages next / how he performs.
Agreed that he had to leave, honestly went into games struggling to see where the wins would come from with Hurst in charge. I don't think he's a particularly bad manager, and should not be short of offers from League One and Two sides, but there were a fair few red flags during his time here. For me, the penny dropped in the goal-less draw against a plodding ten-man Bolton side. We looked completely unable to pick them apart, and that was really concerning (not to mention the poor results and performances beforehand, a couple of games aside).
Regarding Hurst, I think he needs a couple more years in management, and arguably a job at a fairly big club in League One. This would provide him with the experience and ability to get better acquainted with the levels of expectation required for that kind of job. With the benefit of hindsight, a jump from Grimsby and Shrewsbury to Ipswich was too big and he didn't have the tools to bridge that gap. In his defence, he was let down by an exodus of goals and experience from this squad and I can understand his perceived frustration with the inability of some of our players to adapt to his preferred style of football.
Regarding Hurst, I think he needs a couple more years in management, and arguably a job at a fairly big club in League One. This would provide him with the experience and ability to get better acquainted with the levels of expectation required for that kind of job. With the benefit of hindsight, a jump from Grimsby and Shrewsbury to Ipswich was too big and he didn't have the tools to bridge that gap. In his defence, he was let down by an exodus of goals and experience from this squad and I can understand his perceived frustration with the inability of some of our players to adapt to his preferred style of football.
I think this article pretty much sums up my feelings on the whole situation:
http://www.greenun24.co.uk/ipswich-town/why-it-s-sad-things-didn-t-work-out-for-hurst-1-5752526
http://www.greenun24.co.uk/ipswich-town/why-it-s-sad-things-didn-t-work-out-for-hurst-1-5752526
My god that thread makes awful reading.What a dreadfully divisive time that was and makes you appreciate the good times more.
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I still think we made the wrong call on that one. His transfer business was absolutely slated and Jackson in particular was slated but here he still is leading the line at the top of the Championship - Donacien one of the bedrocks of our promotion campaign. Where are Paul Lambert’s players? If McKenna had come in with the squad that McCarthy left behind I reckon we’d be nowhere. He was given a piggy up by great signings whilst Paul Cook was at the club.
Divisive not decisive bloody autocorrect!!
If we’re determined to go down that rabbit hole,Jonathan Douglas ffs!
He did bring in Donacien and Jackson - certainly not the worst 2 signings we’ve ever made but some of the others???
What an awful time, can't believe that 15 year period of doom and gloom was only 2 and a half years ago.
Now we know what went on behind the scenes and how poorly run we were I find it difficult to judge any of the manager (maybe bar Keane) to harshly. I'm sure even McKenna who is far and away a better manager than any of those under the ME era I'm sure would've struggled. Very few people thrive in a poor culture.
Now we know what went on behind the scenes and how poorly run we were I find it difficult to judge any of the manager (maybe bar Keane) to harshly. I'm sure even McKenna who is far and away a better manager than any of those under the ME era I'm sure would've struggled. Very few people thrive in a poor culture.
This old thread encapsulated everything negative about our club in the not-so-distant past. A stark reminder just how hapless and set up for failure we were, underlining all the bad parts of the Marcus Evans era. Back then, it was hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Trudging through those old pages, there are some interesting posts - and a reminder just how negative and bitter some of the infighting was on this forum too!
As for Hurst, I've slightly softened on my negative opinion on him. Was he a good manager? No, and his career since leaving here generally supports that. Did he chop and change formation and his starting eleven too much here? Yes. Will he go down as our worst manager in history? Statistically speaking, you'd have to say yes.
However, was he dealt a bad hand with a bad owner? Absolutely. Did he try and implement a more modern way of playing, but come up against a playing squad reluctant to change and too embedded in Mick's 'old ways of doing things'? Yes. It needed a new owner, a clearer off-field strategy, and a deep clear-out of a below-average playing squad in a couple of transfer windows to set the foundation McKenna benefitted from to thrive. I said earlier on in this thread that we'd get relegated and be in League One for a few years - unfortunately, that turned out to be true.
I think it's important that we don't underestimate the impact of McKenna though. He's clearly a much better manager than Hurst, Lambert, and even Cook (if only I could update my photo!). He's much clearer in his philosophy and his training sessions are widely claimed to be the best at the club - coming from players who have seen it all from the Mick days. He'd obviously be a lot younger back then, but if you dropped present-day McKenna into that 2018/19 squad that got relegated - I think he'd have an impact. Maybe he wouldn't have kept us up, but he'd surely have got us more points than Hurst or Lambert put together in that terrible season.
As for Hurst, I've slightly softened on my negative opinion on him. Was he a good manager? No, and his career since leaving here generally supports that. Did he chop and change formation and his starting eleven too much here? Yes. Will he go down as our worst manager in history? Statistically speaking, you'd have to say yes.
However, was he dealt a bad hand with a bad owner? Absolutely. Did he try and implement a more modern way of playing, but come up against a playing squad reluctant to change and too embedded in Mick's 'old ways of doing things'? Yes. It needed a new owner, a clearer off-field strategy, and a deep clear-out of a below-average playing squad in a couple of transfer windows to set the foundation McKenna benefitted from to thrive. I said earlier on in this thread that we'd get relegated and be in League One for a few years - unfortunately, that turned out to be true.
I think it's important that we don't underestimate the impact of McKenna though. He's clearly a much better manager than Hurst, Lambert, and even Cook (if only I could update my photo!). He's much clearer in his philosophy and his training sessions are widely claimed to be the best at the club - coming from players who have seen it all from the Mick days. He'd obviously be a lot younger back then, but if you dropped present-day McKenna into that 2018/19 squad that got relegated - I think he'd have an impact. Maybe he wouldn't have kept us up, but he'd surely have got us more points than Hurst or Lambert put together in that terrible season.
Whilst McKenna is the best thing which happened to us since sliced bread, I honestly would not be confident that he would've been able to do anything with that squad.
I don't think that squad would've been capable of playing how he wants to play. He'd have had to have been very pragmatic and I've not seen that side of him because in general he hasn't had to, even though on paper our squad is over performing they are all talented players with good physical attributes that can't be said for the squad back then. And whilst Jackson does a job for us I can't say he's performing any better than he was when he first came to the club, infact I'd say he suited playing in a top 2 with Norwood than the positions he plays under McKenna.
I don't think that squad would've been capable of playing how he wants to play. He'd have had to have been very pragmatic and I've not seen that side of him because in general he hasn't had to, even though on paper our squad is over performing they are all talented players with good physical attributes that can't be said for the squad back then. And whilst Jackson does a job for us I can't say he's performing any better than he was when he first came to the club, infact I'd say he suited playing in a top 2 with Norwood than the positions he plays under McKenna.
Several of us have advocated a top 2 in recent years. If we have to rely on Jackson for the forseeable, maybe we need to pair him up with one of our frontrunners.
The two-up front argument made more sense under Lambert. I think by moving to a top two in McKenna's system, you negatively impact on our build up play - which has been key for the number of goals we've scored. There's a reason he doesn't move to a top two when we're behind and chasing games - and to be fair, we've scored the most goals in the last 15 minutes in this league by generally maintaining the same system and formation.
The centre-forward's role under McKenna is high intensity pressing, holding the ball up to play in the attacking four behind him, and to chase down the odd direct ball. Overall, it's a pretty thankless task, and I'm not sure Jackson has got to grips with it. However, he seems better suited to it than a Chaplin or a Broadhead. I'm just hoping we bring at least one striker in. I still feel we need two.
I've generally always preferred 2 up top because I think movement tends to be better to create more space. Since Hirst has come in its been probably one of the first times ive seen us play effectively with 1 striker. The balance of the squad with our first team 11 is great. The challenge we have and McKenna has is he's recruited a first team to play a particular way and we play to their strengths. When a first teamer gets injured we don't change how we play which in some instances can be a strength but in others we bring players in to play certain positions which doesn't get the best out of them. It's a fine balance but sometimes perhaps it might be wise to adapt our formation/how we play to the players we have.
While Kieffer Moore is no Hirst, he could be devastating with Sarmiento or Hutchinson as 2 up front.
If we do get him in.
If we do get him in.
After yesterday it's always humble to remember embarrassing days are never far away!!