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Hungarian GP Thread (the lazy version)

Discussion in 'Formula 1' started by allsaintchris., Jul 27, 2018.

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Who is Hungary for victory?

Poll closed Jul 28, 2018.
  1. Hamilton

    2 vote(s)
    13.3%
  2. Bottas

    1 vote(s)
    6.7%
  3. Vettel

    6 vote(s)
    40.0%
  4. Kimi

    1 vote(s)
    6.7%
  5. Ricciardo

    1 vote(s)
    6.7%
  6. Mad Max

    2 vote(s)
    13.3%
  7. Anyone from teh rest of the field as they stand no chance so little point in putting anyone else up

    2 vote(s)
    13.3%
  8. Me

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. dhel

    dhel Well-Known Member

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    Ferrari lost this race between Q3 and the run down to turn 1... after that they were always on the back foot. I really thought Red Bull would have been a lot closer in wet,. dry and also on that track...they didn't seem to get their set up right at all for either.
     
    #221
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  2. moreinjuredthanowen

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    IMO they lost it when they started panicking after Q3.

    They put raikkonen on a split strategy but he's gone backwards in every race bar one off the line. So he was boned before he ever took to the track.

    Vettel had lost the race before it begun when hamilton coudl sail away from bottas as the rear gunner. 3 times.

    Ferrair failed to see raikkonen slow stop and then shock oh vettel had a slow stop.. how did that happen??

    Ferrari could see traffic coming and pitted vettel only after he drove through said traffic.

    all of these panicky poor decisions added up to a slam dunk for hamilton.
     
    #222
  3. dhel

    dhel Well-Known Member

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    IMO I think Mercedes brought Bottas in too early too. He had about 7 secs in hand to Kimi I think. And Kimi had a very slow pitstop, so Mercedes could have left him out a few more laps so he could have attacked with fresher tyres that would have gone to the end. I guess they wanted to cover Kimi, but if they had kept out Bottas he would have had a better chance of 2nd place. Vettel on Ultras would have had to try to chase Hamilton on good softs with plenty laps to go, I am sure Vettel would have burnt them out at that pace, and that would have given Bottas a chance to come back at him with softs that would have lasted to the end. What I found was strange was that Hamilton was getting through the lapped cars faster than Vettel, even though we know Mercedes doesn't follow well. Was it a case of people getting out the way quicker for Mercedes? I doubt it. What I notice too was that Bottas was overtaking them just before the corners so that Vettel would have to clear the corner before he could overtake, which is a sensible way of keeping your opponent behind for a long time without killing your tyres too much. I dont know if anybody saw it differently.
     
    #223
  4. Big Ern

    Big Ern Lord, Master, Guru & Emperor

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    The only teams that try to defend against Hamilton for position are Ferrari & RBR, everyone else just act like they're getting blue flags anyway, whereas Sainz was show 9 blue flags before he let Vettel through yesterday, but somehow escaped any sort of punishment
     
    #224
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  5. allsaintchris.

    allsaintchris. Well-Known Member

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    To be fair Vettel cruises past most of them as well when coming back up through the field. Both of them are the standout drivers in the top cars, so most teams see little point in wasting tyres/damage etc in trying to hold them back as ultimately it will make little difference to their races (Monaco clearly being the exception).
     
    #225
  6. Smithers

    Smithers Well-Known Member
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    Hmmm Monaco didn’t pose too many problems for Merc coming through the field :emoticon-0184-tmi:
     
    #226
  7. BrightLampShade

    BrightLampShade Well-Known Member
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    I think it's just a sign on how 2 tier F1 is. The front teams are so so so much faster it just makes no sense to fight them. You can drive defensively and slow yourself down but you can't hold back a car 2s a lap quicker indefinitely. All you end up doing is wasting time compared to your actual rivals. If there wasn't a 2s gap between the front and mid field then It would be worth defending as you may actually be able to battle them.
     
    #227
  8. Julius Caesar

    Julius Caesar Well-Known Member
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    Ricciardo coming the field was probably the closest to racing between the tiers we've seen all year. A brief reminder of why the top cars starting at the back used to be entertaining.

    Vandoorne even had the cheek to cover the inside line!
     
    #228
  9. allsaintchris.

    allsaintchris. Well-Known Member

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    That there are 3 teams able to fight for wins is at least a step up from where it has been in the past, even under the V8 formula in its latter years where RBR dominated.

    There will always be the haves and have notes, but where it seems to be different is that there is normally a gradual line between the speeds of the teams, whereas now it is a clear 'top 3' and then everyone else in tier 2, except Williams.

    However, some of this is down to the likes of McLaren and Renault underperforming where really they should be far closer then they are to RBR, who are just a customer team of Renault. Then we'd have a top 5, or at least them mixing it up a bit. That's not down to F1, McLaren are a well funded team but have screwed up having believed their own hype about how good their car was.

    Never in F1 has the entire field ever had a chance of winning, or even a podium under normal conditions so some guys on here do need to stop berating F1 for not giving the smaller teams a chance, as its no different to the past.
     
    #229
  10. Julius Caesar

    Julius Caesar Well-Known Member
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    It's not just the underperforming of one or two teams, the entire midfield has lost ground on the frontrunners. In 2012 the slowest midfield car was the Toro Rosso averaging 101.8% of the pole time. Which is the same gap the fastest Midfield car (Renault) currently have. Williams now are roughly equivalent to the 2012 Caterham.

    Admittedly that year was closer than usual, but the point remains that Red Bull, McLaren, Renault, Force India, Williams, Sauber and Toro Rosso are all slower (relatively) than they were in the V8 era. To me, that is a problem that needs addressing because it's affecting the show. It misconstruing the argument to act like F1 is berated because Haas can't win a race. I'm berating F1 because Haas don't even try and defend for P6.

    The current situation more closely resembles multi-class racing in WEC than the last 15 years of F1.
     
    #230
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
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  11. allsaintchris.

    allsaintchris. Well-Known Member

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    How do you address it without bringing in some kind of artificial performance measure? Is that what F1 really wants?

    If the rule book gets ripped up - again - then there is no guarantee the teams will be closer.
     
    #231
  12. Julius Caesar

    Julius Caesar Well-Known Member
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    I actually think the rules coming in over the next few years should help a lot. Teams like Force India and Williams have pretty much openly admitted they are just trying to hold on for 2021. My comment was only meaning that criticism of F1 as it is in 2018 is fair rather than the direction as a whole. Liberty and the FIA do seem aware of an issue.

    I think with regulation upheavals, the difference between them making the field closer or further apart might be whether adds or removes complexity. When why 2009 helped the midfield, but 2014 and 2017 did not. Maybe even as soon as next year, the simple front wings could help. Otherwise removing the MGU-H in 2021 will help if only for budget reasons.

    Liberty Media have also made noises about finally getting more money for the small teams in the next concorde and even talk of a budget cap again. We'll see if it stands up to Mercedes and Ferrari's inevitable threats.
     
    #232
  13. Justjazz

    Justjazz Well-Known Member

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    Symptoms and not the causes? There are four engines on track, the manufacturer typically has the advantage both in terms of understanding how to get the most from the PU and earlier knowledge of the development in pipeline. This holds true for Mercedes and Ferrari albeit there may be some politics in it too. Honda still have work to do which leaves Renault where Red Bull are beating the works team still and Mclaren. I will ignore the later for obvious reasons. Redbull performance is mostly credited to Adrian Newey. Redbull are well funded AND have drivers who are not pay drivers. Are the moans from smaller teams about the bigger teams hiding a lot of other fundamental problems? That of poor teams and pay drivers. As evidence, Williams are well off the pace with a good engine, tier 2 team and drivers. We want better drivers and better teams technically. Let's not forget 2012 was not a terrible year for McLaren on customer engines and reasonably decent drivers (not sure about Jenson but always liked him).
    Too much about money. More money for the smaller teams, yes, in return there must be something given back, opportunity for talented, truly talented drivers and technical designers.
     
    #233
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018

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