You normally like to write long winded posts. So less of the smart arse and tell me why you think I was wrong.
I don't really like long winded posts, I tend to leave that to others as they don't get read. I can only repeat what I've already said, you claim that people not joining Greenpeace could imply they don't care about the environment, I'd say it could be any number of reasons, including not liking Greenpeace, or prefering another option. People can still get their opinion recognised without being a member of a specific group, especially if they have a valid argument. It can't sometimes be more effective than weight of numbers. It's pretty much irelavent to all this though.
Seems to be a lot of people trying to point score for no.reason. As as far as I can recall from the arbitration report the club was told at the beginning of the process that they should hold a ballot. Perhaps they have been reminded of this recently, and the process that should be undertaken to do this. The HCST and OSC have been asked to ballot their members, nothing more and nothing less, the results aren't going to decide anything on their own but will help the FA to make and explain their decision, as will any ballot the club have held or expect to hold. The most critical part of the arbitration report was over the complete lack of business plan, I presume this hasn't changed.
If I've wooshed there then I'm still wooshing now cos I have no idea what you're getting at. I'm sure you'll explain it fully and not just disappear for a few days before making another one word post on another thread to take the piss without actually saying anything.
This thing about how many people join the group only seems to be an issue in Hull, where some people are desperate to fight the Allam corner regardless of sense. Generally people are aware that fan groups don't get enormous membership numbers, and that one or two thousand is significant. You can't say that that many people represent 20,000 people accurately, but if everyone has the opportunity to join one of two groups and be represented, then those who turn it down can't really be represented at all.
The Labour Party has about 190,00o members in the UK but quite a few more will support them with a vote in the next election - it's a total red herring. I agree that lone voices can be effective in making valid points and will always support their right to do so, but I don't believe that the lone voice needs to stand apart or feel that they need to denigrate any organisation that wishes to make a collective point.
Not that I comment on this forum very often, but here is my two penneth... Am I season pass holder? Yes. Would I like to have a say in the name change? Yes. Would I like to pay for the privilege of having my say? No. Just for the record, I would have voted a firm "no" in any ballot that did not require my subscription, say for example as a season pass holder! As someone stated earlier in this thread, I wonder why the club have not taken this approach? To me, it speaks volumes of the contempt (or maybe fear) the Allams have of their "irrelevant" fans. As for the silent "majority", no doubt they will remain silent. Again, for the record, in the loaded ballot the club sent out last time, my vote was the firm "no". I was very happy for the Allams to know my name, address etc. and for them to know that I said "NO".
If you are paying over £500 for a season ticket then £5 to join the supporters trust doesn't seem like much
It is the priciple of it Newland. By the very fact I pay £500 (plus 2 childrens passes), should give me a voice without having to pay extra for the privilege.
I agree with that, but £5 has got to be worth a membership which includes a separate opportunity to be represented regardless of what the club do.
Are you saying that you will not join a group simply to vote against the name change? I totally agree with you if that is the case. However, as it has been pointed out many trusts start out as a protest group and develop into a trust. You can join any group for a number of reasons and one of them may be that your view represented. Joining a supporters club is completely different to joining a trust, the two have different roles and whilst both have been invited by the FA to express their members views, joining either simply to cast a single vote on a single issue, is in my opinion not a positive. It can be mis-interpreted and could be used by (in this case) the club, to discount the ballot by saying that this is simply a protest vote and not a true ballot of members. Lets face it, the only ballot out of the two that may have any significant support for the name change would be the OSC. What happens if the "no" votes wins, by the same amount of "new" members? Would that really be seen as a true relfection of the views of the OSC membership? I do not know the answer but personally I would have preferred a cut off date that was the same day as the request. One other reason is that new members joining adds to the task of getting the ballot out. I do not blame people for joining simply to have a vote, it is just that this can distort the true picture and I know that it works both ways. But you are right it is wrong to have to pay to have a vote, if that is the way you see it.
In many respects I agree with what you say, tax without representation and all that (paying for a season pass). I find it frustrating though that I should have to pay either £8 or £5 for my say to be heard. Also by being a member of either of these groups does not necessarily mean you are a fan of the club. For the right investment in either camp, you can buy the vote, hence why I am sceptical of both groups. I would just like to have my say without the necessity of joining a fans group. Although being honest, HCST would be my preference if I were to join a group and not because it is £3 cheaper!
I heard that that was being considered. It's a ridiculous idea trying to stop people from joining because they might vote. They've bought the right to be represented and are no less OSC members than you and I who've been members for longer. It isn't a less true picture at all. I'm pretty certain that if people hadn't posted on here and Twitter that they were joining in order to vote Hull City and had instead said the opposite, then certain individuals at the OSC would have seen it quite differently. Good job common sense prevented the OSC from resorting to those Allam-style measures.
Each to their own; joining the trust is a matter of choice and I totally understand that someone should believe that their expensive season membership of home support should be more than adequate for those in positions of trust to ask them their opinion. The trust is a much wider matter and is not everyone's cup of tea.
Do you really think new members is going to have a significant impact on the voting, I'll be amazed if more than 40 people have signed up since the ballot was announced, it's nothing. I expect the vote to move significantly since last time regardless of new members, just because the Allams have now pissed off so many more people.
I believe that anyone who joins simply to make a protest vote is just fine, if that is what they want, and a clear indication of the level of opinion on that particular topic - especially when any other reasonable avenue is denied them. Where it could be considered a negative is that they might become deadwood on other issues (i.e. complaints, as we have seen, that a so-called small percentage of members cared enough to vote - on, for instance - mirrors in the ladies toilets - jesting Charlie1 )
I believe the very act of purchasing a season pass should buy you representation. In my opinion, this should lend further weight to any ballot outcome on behalf of the club than just the views of (no disrespect) fans groups. Again, I firmly believe the Allams should seriously have considered this approach and offered a simple yes/no ballot, even if this was a simple online ballot with membership numbers as verification. I admit, there would be those who would fear the lack of anonimity, but if the results go the way of the loaded ballot (or leaning even further0 then thos people should have no fear as Allam Snr. is a man of his word and would be gone in 24 hours anyway. Me personally, I have the courage of my convictions and couldn't give a toss if the Allams know I said "NO" In not doing so, in my opinion, this simply comfirms my belief in the contempt the Allams hold for us as fans, which I also believe the FA now may also consider with the renewed application.
