How would you change things?

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No Kane No Gain

No Kane No Gain

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2011
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We've all spoken about how we're not happy with the football we're playing and the results we're getting at the moment. A few tactical changes have been mentioned, 2 upfront, Townsend on the left, etc but how do you guys think we can actually turn things around? And don't just say "sack the manager" :D

I think it's got to the stage where we've got to be playing 2 wingers on their natural sides. Alongside Sandro, the only real source of optimism has come from when we've had a winger take it down the line and cross it in. Walker can provide width and so can Vertonghen/Rose but if they have to do it all the time like they are at the moment then they're going to get knackered and caught too far up the field, I'd rather see them in more of a supporting role in games so they back up the winger rather than looking to constantly go past them. With 2 full backs playing a bit deeper I think we can then afford to have only one holding midfielder, especially if it's Sandro. This in turn should free up Dembele to get forward more like he wants and hopefully will also give our players the freedom to start playing difficult passes and risking losing the ball. At the moment everyone's too scared of ****ing up to make a run or try an attacking pass. Also with Dembele, Lennon and Townsend being good at tracking back it should allow Lamela to just concentrate on closing down players that are infront of him. Once the ball's past him he can look to provide an easy outball for when the play has been broken up, like Bale did at times. As for up top, we just need someone who's prepared to attack the ****ing 6 yard area, there have been some great deliveries but no one on the end of them so whether it's Defoe or Soldado they just need to start realising when a winger has the ball, start busting a gut to get across the centre back.

I'd go for:
Lloris
Walker, Dawson, Chiriches, Vertonghen
Sandro
Lennon, Dembele, Lamela, Townsend
Striker

Capoue looks like he likes to sit deep too so could make good backup for Sandro and I think having a player alongside them would help Holtby, Paulinho and Eriksen when they play. The only trouble is that we only have 2 players that can play as proper wingers, Lamela seems to want to cut inside all the time no matter which flank he's but to be honest I don't mind Sigurdsson playing on the right, he crosses the ball well enough at least.
 
I'd go for either...
Lloris; Walker, Dawson, Chriches, Vertonghen; Sandro, Eriksen; Lamela, Holtby, Lennon; Soldado
...or...
Lloris; Walker, Dawson, Chiriches, Vertonghen; Lennon, Sandro, Paulinho, Townsend; Eriksen; Soldado

The former offers a more creative impetus through the middle (and is how I set up teams to play 4231 on FM...) the latter offers more natural width with a solid middle.
 
I'd want the players to be more open and expressive, I'd like to see the wingers switch it up if they're having no luck on the side they started on. I'd want the midfield partner of Sandro (Paulinho/ Dembele) to push up more and support the attack and worry less about the defensive side. I would get rid of the high line when Dawson plays as while it's worked in the past, I'm just not keen on using slow players in those tactics, ideally I'd probably get rid of the highline overall and have the defence be ready for on coming balls rather than try and play the offside trap which we've been lucky to escape at times. But most of all, I'd want us to attack in numbers in general "Harry style", yes I know it leaves us open at the back but can people honestly say that winning 2-1 or 3-2 wasn't/ isn't entertaining? Especially compared to 1-0 wins. You get your moneys worth when you've left the Lane knowing that was a real thriller of a match and you're heart was in your mouth in periods.

Team I'd like to play when all fit are:

Lloris,
Walker/ Chiriches, Kaboul, Vertonghen, Rose
Sandro, Paulinho
Lamela, Eriksen, Townsend
Soldado

Chiriches has been so good that I wouldn't want to drop him which is why I'd happily see how he does at RB, an on form Kaboul and Vertonghen are better than 90% of CB's in Europe in my opinion.
 
Lloris
Walker Chiriches Verts Rose
Sandro Paulinho
Lamella Eriksen Townsend
Adebeyor

Alternatively

Lloris
Walker Chiriches Verts Rose
Sandro Lamella Eriksen Townsend
Adebeyor Defoe
 
Faster/better passing from defence thru MF.

A proper LB playing ASAP, so a ball-playing CB combo is possible (any pairing from
Kaboul/Vert/Vlad) .

And proper flank attack at WHL for those teams who look like they will attempt
bus parking.

None of the above are fundamentally non-correctable. Nor require reams of new players.
 
We need Rose back quickly, and then some, not because he's all that but because he is a LB by trade.

IMHO, our best hope til he's back is:

Lloris
Walker - Chi-Chi - Kaboom - Verts
Sandro
Lennon - Dembele - Townsend
Soldado
Adebayor

With Capoue, Holtby, Daws, Pauly, Lamela, Defoe, Friedel on the bench
 
We need to settle on a first 11 and keep it as simple as possible. No complex systems just pick the best player for the job and let them get on with it. With the talent available at Spurs it should not be so difficult. I could do this with this squad and get results if you can't you need to look at yourself as the problem.

To sum up.

1. Pick the best players in each position.

2. Stick with them for the league.

3. Play the bench players in the cups.

4. Make it clear who are the 1st picks and invite the rest of the squad to fight to get in there.

5. Spurs have a tradition for atttacking pass and move football.....use it.

6. Put your ego away AVB and concentrate on making the most of the team.

7. If you can't do it, give me a ring and I will come in and sort it for you. <ok>
 
The only things I'd change are the obvious things, which you've mentioned YV.

Wingers on the correct side and not being so defensive and rigid. We've got the personnel to do very well and a very deep squad, where replacements can come in and do a good job. - But clearly at the moment, they are struggling with what they're being asked to do because it's so unnatural to them.

I have questions over whether soldado is the correct striker we needed, as he's not the biggest and i don't feel he's quite a no.9. However, he's scored over 20 goals a season over 4 seasons in La Liga, so there's no doubt he's a good striker. - You don't score goals consistently over a lengthy period if you're crap!! what we need to do is readdress things and start playing in a way that suits him and gets him involved, so he plays in a way that's more natural to him and begin to score goals. The first thing I'd change is the wingers. i have no problem with the wingers switching and going inverted at times, but for the majority of the game i think they should be playing on their natural side, getting dangerous low-ish crosses in for him to get on the end of. Alternatively, if the defence cut these out, we use lennon's/lamela's/townsend's pace to get in behind the defence and cut the ball back from him to slot home.
We also need to remember that not only are our wingers incredibly difficult to mark due to their pace, but they are also supported by two of the fastest full backs in the premiership (Rose & Walker) who can provide an overlap. So, if the opposition decide to double up on Lennon for example, they're going to give themselves all sorts of problems with the space they'll be leaving if Walker is to attempt the overlap. Not only that, but It's bound to free up space for the likes of Eriksen in a more central position as the opposition will be focused on nullifying the pace of the wide players. - To me this is just Balance and shape in it's most simple format, but if utilised correctly, can be very dangerous. Sometimes simplicity is the best option.

One might say "but it'll leave us open defensively". - so what if it does?! We've tried the "defensive approach" and let's be honest, we've been found out. forgetting the 6-0 at the weekend, we we're owned by West Ham, which shows that this myth of being amazing defensively just isn't true. It's actually very easy to punish us if a team sets themselves up correctly (which we've discussed to death), and when it happens, the rigid formation which is designed to be defensive, completely screws us when we try to get back into the game needing a goal.

Man city aren't the best defensively (having already lost 4 games this season) and there were signs in the first half on sunday that we could easily have scored against them. We had a few chances that we squandered, which IMO was down to confidence in front of goal. However city are terrfiying up front and their first form of defence is their attack. Granted, our attackers aren't the calibre of city's, but they're certainly dangerous enough to cause every team in this league big problems.

We just need to start being a bit more ballsy, be prepared to leak a goal, and if we do.....just go for it in attack. I hate to use it, but it's that cliche of footballers "expressing themselves". Last season we conceded goals and were on the backfoot, but there was a feeling that we were more than capable of getting back into it. Yes Bale was the saviour on many occasions, but others certainly played their part in build ups, even if it wasn't their names on the score sheet.

This season, we have new signings who have shown promising talent an potential at their former clubs. - Some of these players having attributes that have had them compared to football greats.

The key is unlocking their potential by letting them play more freely and letting them do what comes natural to them. They are humans, not robots that are programmed. AVB needs to realise this immediately. I don't want to do an AVB/Harry comparison, but the one thing I will say was that Harry was good at letting the players have some freedom. Regardless of one's thoughts on either manager, AVB could do with taking note of that.
 
Looking at it from a strictly neutral viewpoint.

You've paid £26M for an experienced, international striker who doesn't link up play, but wants to play on the shoulder of the last defender and find a yard of space in the penalty area. He can't play up front alone; he needs another forward to hold the ball up, make runs and occupy defenders to create space for him. So Adebayor plays.

Soldado is not a no.10 and will not link up with the midfield so 4-4-2 wouldn't work effectively. Width either comes from wingers or full backs pushing on. The latter looks the better option with Eriksen behind the front two and Sandro and Paulinho in the centre. They have proved effective in controlling midfield. Paulinho will time his runs forward better as he becomes more used to the PL.

That means three at the back which I think would suit Spurs. Dawson and Kaboul alongside Vertonghen who can cover the full back positions when one or other pushes forward and is by far the best organiser and decision maker among the Spurs defenders. He can also bring the ball out from defence. Pushing full backs forward and having a spare man at the back would have restricted City more effectively on Sunday.

With different options on the bench - Townsend & Lennon in particular, there is scope to change formation and tactics if required.

Lloris; Vertonghen, Dawson, Kaboul; Rose, Sandro, Paulinho, Walker; Eriksen; Adebayor, Soldado.
 
littleDinosaurLuke said:
Looking at it from a strictly neutral viewpoint.

You've paid £26M for an experienced, international striker who doesn't link up play, but wants to play on the shoulder of the last defender and find a yard of space in the penalty area. He can't play up front alone; he needs another forward to hold the ball up, make runs and occupy defenders to create space for him. So Adebayor plays.

Soldado is not a no.10 and will not link up with the midfield so 4-4-2 wouldn't work effectively. Width either comes from wingers or full backs pushing on. The latter looks the better option with Eriksen behind the front two and Sandro and Paulinho in the centre. They have proved effective in controlling midfield. Paulinho will time his runs forward better as he becomes more used to the PL.

That means three at the back which I think would suit Spurs. Dawson and Kaboul alongside Vertonghen who can cover the full back positions when one or other pushes forward and is by far the best organiser and decision maker among the Spurs defenders. He can also bring the ball out from defence. Pushing full backs forward and having a spare man at the back would have restricted City more effectively on Sunday.

With different options on the bench - Townsend & Lennon in particular, there is scope to change formation and tactics if required.

Lloris; Vertonghen, Dawson, Kaboul; Rose, Sandro, Paulinho, Walker; Eriksen; Adebayor, Soldado.
Click to expand...




Like the sound of most of this. I've been an advocate for a move to two (strikers) up front, especially for home games.

I would also say that the modern EPL game dictates successful strikers need to have the ability to :-

be cunning enough to find a yard or two of space.,
have the strength and nous to hold the ball up when necessary.,
produce a decent shot from anywhere within the final 1/3.

No top EPL team can afford to carry a striker who's only claim to fame is the ability to score a goal from within the 6 year box. Must Premiership managers are far too smart to be fooled by basic goal-hanging tactics, these days. For that reason my starting line-up for home games would not include Soldado, for a while. An in-form Adebayor with either Kane or dare I say, Defoe would be more productive IMO. I say this because I also believe the more creative players in the squad need to be given options ahead of them.

Eriksen may yet prove to be a good signing., why he hasn't been used more is a mystery.
I'd prefer to have Benoît Assou-Ekotto's experience at left back and to play Vertonghen in his best position.
 
I would:
- Get Ade and BAE and Carroll back in the fold as soon as possible.
- Make it clear that, Sandro aside, the midfielders' main job is to create/score goals. This would be my key criteria for team selections. On the strength of this Paulinho and Dembele would know what is wanted of them. I would be willing to drop both.
- Get crosses in. Watching the highlights of the Brighton game earlier today there was a beautiful cross put in. It made me think: how many crosses have Spurs put in ALL SEASON?
- Play Ade plus one at home and against weaker teams away.
- Have a look at the pro-zone stats and see what the ratio of sprinting/running is with and without the ball. Cos to me it seems like all the effort is going into closing down whist breaks at pace? Well they basically don't happen any more.
- Play Lennon on the right, Townsend on the left. Crosses. Playing on the left never hurt Bale's ability to cut inside and shoot with his left.
 
Good thread and a lot of good posts--so much so I sincerely hope AVB reads it somehow.

I would start our best football players and play like Chile does right now for the most part, like we're always a goal down, the Bielsa school: every moment should be spent pressing the other team if they have the ball, and trying to score quickly by attacking in waves if we have it. I agree with LP about breaking at pace. ****ing run top speed all the time, the way Chile does. It's a great thing to do with a team that has too many deserving starters, in any case. If some players seem completely exhausted, given someone else a chance to run all game.

Throw in a Plan B of sitting back and hitting on the break, and a Plan C of slow buildup, neither one to be used all that often.

Our best football players?

Rose Vertonghen Chiriches Walker
Sandro/Dembele Paulinho/Dembele
Lennon Eiriksen/Holtby Townsend/Lamela
Soldado

We do need a regular starting 11, simply because the rapidly shifting team we've been playing seems to have imploded. I would make two regular substitutions, though, so we can play 13 rather than 11. One would be to rotate Sandro, Dembele and Paulinho so they each average around 2/3 of a game. The other's a tough one between Eiriksen/Holtby and Townsend/Lamela. We might even consider Soldado/Ade.

I'm pretty set on Lennon starting because he's the one forward we have who provides width. One real winger is often the right number. Zero and you get jammed up in the middle, two and you have too few players in the center of the field.

In any case, what we do with too many deserving starters is not an easy question, and may have had more to do with our troubles than is generally credited.

But I think if you do what I or just about every other poster suggests, it's going to be a much more entertaining team, and probably a more successful one as well.
 
redwhiteandermblue said:
Good thread and a lot of good posts--so much so I sincerely hope AVB reads it somehow.

I would start our best football players and play like Chile does right now for the most part, like we're always a goal down, the Bielsa school: every moment should be spent pressing the other team if they have the ball, and trying to score quickly by attacking in waves if we have it. I agree with LP about breaking at pace. ****ing run top speed all the time, the way Chile does. It's a great thing to do with a team that has too many deserving starters, in any case. If some players seem completely exhausted, given someone else a chance to run all game.

Throw in a Plan B of sitting back and hitting on the break, and a Plan C of slow buildup, neither one to be used all that often.

Our best football players?

Rose Vertonghen Chiriches Walker
Sandro/Dembele Paulinho/Dembele
Lennon Eiriksen/Holtby Townsend/Lamela
Soldado

We do need a regular starting 11, simply because the rapidly shifting team we've been playing seems to have imploded. I would make two regular substitutions, though, so we can play 13 rather than 11. One would be to rotate Sandro, Dembele and Paulinho so they each average around 2/3 of a game. The other's a tough one between Eiriksen/Holtby and Townsend/Lamela. We might even consider Soldado/Ade.

I'm pretty set on Lennon starting because he's the one forward we have who provides width. One real winger is often the right number. Zero and you get jammed up in the middle, two and you have too few players in the center of the field.

In any case, what we do with too many deserving starters is not an easy question, and may have had more to do with our troubles than is generally credited.

But I think if you do what I or just about every other poster suggests, it's going to be a much more entertaining team, and probably a more successful one as well.
Click to expand...

And (no offence, anyone) I think that says more about the pitiful state we're in than how astute me or anyone else here regarding footballing tactics/selections. Surely ANY change will make us more entertaining and effective?!

Properly feels like the only way is up (at least short term) if any new man came in - what needs to change is bloody obvious and any sensible person would address it.
 
Also want to add that, actually, a few of my desired changes have been happening over recent games. Vertonghen at LB rather than Naughton, Sandro starting, Lennon playing and now Ade coming back into the team...

It just seems like now we're paying for all the faults that have been there since the start of the season - i.e. there's no fluency in attack due to all the new faces, the interchangeability of all those new faces, emphasis on ball retention at all costs, all the emphasis on closing down/pressing, the sheer lack of numbers in the opponent's third or penalty area. Basically this team is nowhere near starting to work out how to attack. And haven't had a great deal of practice at it yet this season!
 
The problem with Vertonghen playing at L.B. Is that Dawson has his place in the centre. Neither of our C.B,'s covered themselves in glory at the weekend. Kaboul, however, I feel just needs game time to get back up to speed after such a long lay off. Dawson, as much as he has many supporters here, and has also been a loyal servant of the club, worries me. I'm sorry to say that IMO, he's just not good enough for a team that aspires to be C.L. Regulars.
 
NowsufferinginSpain said:
The problem with Vertonghen playing at L.B. Is that Dawson has his place in the centre. Neither of our C.B,'s covered themselves in glory at the weekend. Kaboul, however, I feel just needs game time to get back up to speed after such a long lay off. Dawson, as much as he has many supporters here, and has also been a loyal servant of the club, worries me. I'm sorry to say that IMO, he's just not good enough for a team that aspires to be C.L. Regulars.
Click to expand...

We probably differ in our assessment of Dawson. But I do think that the drop from Verts to Daws in the middle is nothing compared to the drop in going from Verts to Naughton at LB. Dawson will do a job for you the vast majority of the time. Naughton? Might as well not be there.

Far from ideal to have Verts LB (ideal would be someone with bags of experience, would cost nothing, is already familiar with the players and league, maybe with a big Afro. Wonder if there's any of them knocking about?) but the best of a crappy situation. Til Rose gets back at least though I'm not 100% on the Rose bandwagon...yet. Though that's another story. Great back-up, mind - that's for sure.

I think Dawson's good enough to be where he is, TBH - which is a player who may well not have been in the first 11 the majority of his Spurs career but has almost always done what's needed of him as/when required and without kicking up a fuss if benched. I honestly believe that many lesser/equal defenders have won plenty of medals and been regulars in "top 4" teams over the years.
 
I agree with Lenny RE Daws.

I think he's more than worthy of playing for us. Admittedly I think Jan and Younes are much better while Chiriches definitely has the potential to be but Daws has been a great player and an even better Pro for us over the years. Granted he tends to have a mare against City (especially Aguero!) and when teams come at us with pace (but then so do most CB's) but if Daws played in every league game in a 38 game season, you could pretty much guarantee that a good 28-30 games he'd do a good if not great job.
 
Spurs or Sex? said:
I agree with Lenny RE Daws.

I think he's more than worthy of playing for us. Admittedly I think Jan and Younes are much better while Chiriches definitely has the potential to be but Daws has been a great player and an even better Pro for us over the years. Granted he tends to have a mare against City (especially Aguero!) and when teams come at us with pace (but then so do most CB's) but if Daws played in every league game in a 38 game season, you could pretty much guarantee that a good 28-30 games he'd do a good if not great job.
Click to expand...

You seem to think Dawson is a great player and AVB is a clueless manager. I'm not sure how you can come to those conclusions on the evidence in front of you. Dawson is one of the best professionals Spurs have ever had and always gives 100% and gets the very best out of his abilities. But those abilities are actually quite limited and he makes far too many mistakes to be considered great. Responsible for more goals against us than Gomes ever was.
 
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