How times have changed

[TheTruthHurts]

swamp .... if your right then this season redknapp is getting better team performances from a poorer team then wenger is getting from a better team .. either way you cut it one is going up and one is going down ... modern history for sure as spurs have still only ever won the league in black and white and whislt we have 8 yrs and growing since our last title spurs are 50plus so bragging rights are still a good argument to be had down the pub.

only rvp would get in the spurs team .. not because of indivudal abilty but spurs play as a team and we play and unit as headless chickens hoping for the perfect pitch the perfect ref and the perfect opposition to let us play around them .. pity we can't do blackburn at home everyweek i guess.

the fact were debating is shows you what wengers plans over the past 7 yrs have done to us .... saf pats wenger on the head like a school boy and then says spurs are the team to watch ... and saf knows a bit about football

 

[Krispur61]

Hilarious i wouldn't have any Arsenal players excpet RVP, no fight and not fit to wear the Arsenal shirt

Take of your Arsenal tints specs mate, your team and players are not very good and bottle all the important games you play.........man for man ASpurs are better than you at the moment..... and play better football and doint better

get used to it..... times change...... teams get worse teams get better....thats football.

could be worse you could be a liverpool supporter...

 

[TheBear]

Not at all. It's easy to criticise when things aren't going well, but not all of it is accurate, so that's where I point out what I don't agree with.

It's not a black and white argument. Blind faith vs Doom Mongers. Some people over simplify the argument.

We always have though!
Its not right to use this as an excuse every year. Injuries have certainly cost us a few trophies over the last few Seasons.

However Wengers stubborness to change ANYTHING is now a serious problem.
What has been done to address this?.. It's bad management to do Nothing about the fact we get soo many injuries EVERY season. We can all predict its going to happen because it always does.


Wenger's refusal to change and the boards consistant cashing in on our top stars have damaged this club and something needs to be done to help change things around.

 

[Swamp]

the truth hurts

what i was pointing out was that spurs have had almost no injuries, whereas arsenal have had loads, reverse the situation and spurs would be mid table, arsenal 3rd, when both teams are at full strength i think they are of similar quality..

 

[Robin van Bergkamp]

jay, you say spurs have a better team than arsenal.....maybe first 11, but they have very little back up, and i actually think arsenals strongest 11 is at least the equal of spurs..

friedel
walker king kaboul assou ekotto
lennon parker modric bale
vaart
adebayor

szszezny
sagna vermaelen koscielny santos
arteta song wilshere
walcott gervinho
van persie

first of all they will lose their best attacker next season (adebayor) plus bale will leave in the next 18 months, modric wants to leave for chelsea... and there is a good chance they will lose their manager.... are things as rosy as people would have you think? no..

when arsenal get their first 11 out its a top 4 team at least, when you start to lose 5-6 key first team players and you have to resort to playing youth players out of position, its a bit silly to then compare starting 11's of a team that has been incredibly lucky with injuries this season...

Swamp

Arsenals best 11 may be the equal of Spur's own at a specific time but not on any given day. When we met them away I think it was unfortunate that we didn't get anything from that game. However I don't think we are a match for Spurs in terms of team spirit. In that department they are quite some way ahead of us. You only need to look at the level of their performances. My take anyway.

If they were to lose key players and O'e' 'Arry then I grant you this would even things up. However we won't know who they will bring in so really anything in the future is speculative. We could still have Arsene this time next year and by tradition, be out of three competitions and with no hope of glory in the EPL.

While Spurs have been fortunate in the area of injuries, it looks like a perennial thing for us. Something has to be wrong there too but Arsene does nothing about it. As said elsewhere, not all our ills are down to Arsene but he has his share of responsibility here and as Ammaar said above, he can no longer motivate the players. To top that, he has no tactical flexibility. Some may even say awareness and sadly I wouldn't disagree.

Putting conjecture aside and sticking solely to the facts, fact is that Spurs spend less than us in real terms and are more successful on the pitch. Ole' 'Arry talks straight too. I'm beginning to see more value in that.

 

[Jayram_Football]

Swamp

Arsenals best 11 may be the equal of Spur's own at a specific time but not on any given day. When we met them away I think it was unfortunate that we didn't get anything from that game. However I don't think we are a match for Spurs in terms of team spirit. In that department they are quite some way ahead of us. You only need to look at the level of their performances. My take anyway.

If they were to lose key players and O'e' 'Arry then I grant you this would even things up. However we won't know who they will bring in so really anything in the future is speculative. We could still have Arsene this time next year and by tradition, be out of three competitions and with no hope of glory in the EPL.

While Spurs have been fortunate in the area of injuries, it looks like a perennial thing for us. Something has to be wrong there too but Arsene does nothing about it. As said elsewhere, not all our ills are down to Arsene but he has his share of responsibility here and as Ammaar said above, he can no longer motivate the players. To top that, he has no tactical flexibility. Some may even say awareness and sadly I wouldn't disagree.

Putting conjecture aside and sticking solely to the facts, fact is that Spurs spend less than us in real terms and are more successful on the pitch. Ole' 'Arry talks straight too. I'm beginning to see more value in that.

There's a confusion here between talent and actual quality. Whilst many of our players have talent, they do not have the character to play at the top level.

Only Szczesny, Merts, Wilshere and RVP have what it takes from our first 11.

Personally I think those four players would get into the Spurs side, with 7 Spurs players making up the 11.

 

[TheTruthHurts]

Jayram ... do you really think that the big german has what it takes to be part and help form a tight defence in the prem league ... TV has but he looks disilusioned with the whole thing .. body language like clichy before he left ..... clichy had what it tool to win but just lost his love for the club for some reason that could not be addressed.

we have good players, we have mediocre ones as well .. we have no team spirit (but we talk about it as if we do) and we have no organsiation on the pitch .... don't matter how good you are .. if your not organised and well led you don't get across that winning line.

i agree that the gk, wilshire and rvp show more then enough as does tv and sometimes kos but kos can't make us great he is a 10games a yr man for cover at best .. not 1st choice, the fact we think he's good shows you how the standards have fallen .... campbell admas etc used to make a cockup once a month .. these guys make them every half we play.

sunderland were a better team then us yesterday, game plan, organisation, spirit etc etc .. how many sunderland players are better then us? ... er about 10 at the minute ...

 

[Robin van Bergkamp]

There's a confusion here between talent and actual quality. Whilst many of our players have talent, they do not have the character to play at the top level.

............

Quite.

What is so deflating is that the squad cannot rise together on any given day. I think this team has fallen away so far from the one that last triumphed in a major competition that the ability to compete at the top level consistently is gone.

With that, is it any surprise RvP has not given any indication about his contractual intentions? Furthermore, who now will want to come to us while there is no indication that our current form and ways will change.

 

[Swamp]

RVB what i'm saying is as it stands, things are only going to get worse from here on in for spurs, as they will lose key players and not be able to replace them with equal quality, for arsenal things can only get better when players like santos and wilshere come back and as long as top 4 is secured then he deserves another shot. how many times have spurs finished in the top 4 in the last 15 years or so? once, arsenal every time. spurs fans go mad when they are 3rd, which shows they still have a small club mentality which takes years of top 4 finishes to shake off, arsenal are still a big club and will finish in the top 4 once again IMO

Jay, there are alot of good players in the squad but none of them have won anything, they should have won the league cup but bottled it, thats probably down to a lack of experience of a high pressure final, and concentration, i think walcott has the ability to be a top level player, so does ramsey, but they are being chucked in to the deep end (particularly ramsey) when he hasnt been as good as he was before breaking his leg, at man united they would have him play second fiddle to experienced pros for a while, but arsenal dont have that luxury...

things can only get worse for spurs, things can only get better for arsenal......

 

[TheTruthHurts]

robin van bergkamp .. add to that who will come for thursday night channel five football either .... ??? hazard could be a gooner but its likely he will go to spurs as an example

the pool wenger will have to go to wont be guys who want champs league football ... but that way we can rebuild with players who want to play for us and build towards success the next year ..

to go forward you sometimes go backwards ... well wenger has got reverse sorted now to go through the gears

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

what i was pointing out was that spurs have had almost no injuries, whereas arsenal have had loads, reverse the situation and spurs would be mid table, arsenal 3rd, when both teams are at full strength i think they are of similar quality..

We've actually had a lot of injuries Swamp, but they've either been to non-first XI players or others have stepped up in their absence.
Gallas has been largely unavailable, for example, but Kaboul's been outstanding in his place and Dawson's picked up the slack when Kaboul's been out.
Our Europa League campaign was blighted by injuries to virtually a whole XI, resulting in young wingers playing as full-backs and young midfielders playing as centre-halves.

Not as bad as Arsenal's constant losses at the back, admittedly, but we've hardly been injury free.

 

[Highland Gunner]

i had hope until yesterday evening, if we turn up next week and play spurs like that itll be a rugby score. ill always support the team but some determination from them wouldnt go amiss

 

[Jayram_Football]

Jayram ... do you really think that the big german has what it takes to be part and help form a tight defence in the prem league ... TV has but he looks disilusioned with the whole thing .. body language like clichy before he left ..... clichy had what it tool to win but just lost his love for the club for some reason that could not be addressed.

we have good players, we have mediocre ones as well .. we have no team spirit (but we talk about it as if we do) and we have no organsiation on the pitch .... don't matter how good you are .. if your not organised and well led you don't get across that winning line.

i agree that the gk, wilshire and rvp show more then enough as does tv and sometimes kos but kos can't make us great he is a 10games a yr man for cover at best .. not 1st choice, the fact we think he's good shows you how the standards have fallen .... campbell admas etc used to make a cockup once a month .. these guys make them every half we play.

sunderland were a better team then us yesterday, game plan, organisation, spirit etc etc .. how many sunderland players are better then us? ... er about 10 at the minute ...

Yes I have seen real talent in Merts. He reads the game better than any defender I have seem since Adams. In fact I liken him a lot to Adams. For his first year he has done pretty well. I think he could be one of the top defenders in the league next year.

 

[Robin van Bergkamp]

robin van bergkamp .. add to that who will come for thursday night channel five football either .... ??? hazard could be a gooner but its likely he will go to spurs as an example

the pool wenger will have to go to wont be guys who want champs league football ... but that way we can rebuild with players who want to play for us and build towards success the next year ..

to go forward you sometimes go backwards ... well wenger has got reverse sorted now to go through the gears

TH

We have been rebuilding since 04/05. Yes we have come close but bottled it as Swamp suggested above. Sadly it's true since we have!!!

However I have problems with the rebuilding model because it has gotten us nowhere. If anything this year shows that it is taking us backwards. If you look at our performance from the year TH No 14 left us, with Adebayor stepping up to the plate and scoring 30 goals, we led the EPL. Sadly we let it slip after the Birmingham debacle. That team really jinxes us you know. Since then we have come close again in 2010. Now last year we were one could argue, close too. However, a meeting with Birmingham again undid everything. And that my friend is just it. Our rebuilding is only 3/4 complete. We have never been able to challenge beyond the end of February. It has all been about hope and all our hopes dashed. Last year we picked up 12 points in our last 11 games. This season we picked up 7 in our first 7 and up till our last EPL match of the previous week, we were on 8 from 8. There was a time when we would have dug our heels in and made a fight of it. We would actually win too. However our record as given above rather shows that this is reverse gear, wouldn't you agree?

 

[Robin van Bergkamp]

RVB what i'm saying is as it stands, things are only going to get worse from here on in for spurs, as they will lose key players and not be able to replace them with equal quality, for arsenal things can only get better when players like santos and wilshere come back and as long as top 4 is secured then he deserves another shot. how many times have spurs finished in the top 4 in the last 15 years or so? once, arsenal every time. spurs fans go mad when they are 3rd, which shows they still have a small club mentality which takes years of top 4 finishes to shake off, arsenal are still a big club and will finish in the top 4 once again IMO

Jay, there are alot of good players in the squad but none of them have won anything, they should have won the league cup but bottled it, thats probably down to a lack of experience of a high pressure final, and concentration, i think walcott has the ability to be a top level player, so does ramsey, but they are being chucked in to the deep end (particularly ramsey) when he hasnt been as good as he was before breaking his leg, at man united they would have him play second fiddle to experienced pros for a while, but arsenal dont have that luxury...

things can only get worse for spurs, things can only get better for arsenal......

Swamp

I suppose it could get a lot worse too like dropping to 7th or worse.

Right now there is no suggestion that our past will have any bearing on our future. The same goes for Spurs. Who ever thought that Liverpool would have fallen so far? Who ever thought that Utd would have won 19 Premier League titles? When I started following football from 1978 they were a team we usually beat. Liverpool were our main rivals in my time all the way to the early nineties. Then we got the better of them most of the time. Now it seems we are rubbing shoulders again and not even for the runner up position but to be also rans!! The past is no indication of the future. What we currently do with our club does and what we are currently doing, does squat.


However I do applaud your optimism and wish I could share it.

 

[Moorpheus19]

The NLD is incredibly unpredictable - neither team tends to value defence as highly as offence and so there's usually been goals (more recently at least).

On current form, yes, Spurs should win (something I obviously hope happens) - but Arsenal SHOULD be up for the game (note the word 'should') and will make it an interesting game again.

Even if Arsenal lose, as expected, the reverse fixture earlier in the season propelled Arsenal onto a good streak for a while so you can hold onto that if you want Arsenal fans lol

 

[District Line]

The NLD is incredibly unpredictable - neither team tends to value defence as highly as offence and so there's usually been goals (more recently at least).

On current form, yes, Spurs should win (something I obviously hope happens) - but Arsenal SHOULD be up for the game (note the word 'should') and will make it an interesting game again.

Even if Arsenal lose, as expected, the reverse fixture earlier in the season propelled Arsenal onto a good streak for a while so you can hold onto that if you want Arsenal fans lol

No it isn't, both are clueless defensively. You can almost guarantee 3 or more goals being scored in any NLD.

Most people will back Tottenham and I suspect they will win, just as in October.

Since HR came to your club I have never thought Spurs would lose an NLD whereas I have with Arsenal.

The "form goes out the window" is one of the biggest myths in football. 9 times out of 10 the form team will win and the 1 time out of 10 is usually down to complacency, fatigue or just refereeing blunders/bad luck.

Arsenal usually win when nobody expects them to which could work in their favour, I remember last year saying Arsenal would beat United at the Emirates and was shot down but they did because Arsenal generally perform well when not under pressure.

 

[District Line]

I'd personally say the Tyne-Wear and Black Country derbies are the least predictable of the top flight ones.

City will dominate Manchester Derbies from now on and Spurs will dominate NLD's

 

[Arsenal4life]

of course we will be supporting the boys to beat spurs ... it goes with saying .. put the support into supporter what a condescending comment is this from a moderator?, its really quite disgraceful.

i supported arsenal in the 80s when we where poor .. the players could get 200% support and fail as they were not that good and other teams were better ...


i will support the guys 100% v spurs .. they may win or they may lose who cares .... fact is 3/4 of the season gone and yet again results and excuses are poor poor poor .. supporting a guy like bergkamp, wrighty or henry helped but it never made them better players ... they were always great players period .. fact is we have 1 left and at the minute spurs have a bucket full ,,, what goes around comes around, success in cycles is common.

time to put the arsene supporters out to rest now such condescending comments will be supported by yet another cancelled entry on 606 as some people simply cannot accept anothers point of view ... i feel really sad for them to be honest its truely sad to see them here.

if your not good enough ... your not good enough but i guess the guy in question knows this 100%

Piskie is the most condescending poster I have ever come across on any internet forum. I think he is a good guy but certainly do understand why people get annoyed at how condescending he is.....

 

[Bergkamp a Dutch master]

you didn't mention how irritating, pig-headed, one-eyed, stubborn, argumentative and plainly wrong on all matters Arsenal