There are a lot of ifs and buts being thrown around here. If the ground had been hit by a meteor during a match during Redknapp's era its likely that Kane et al would not be in the first team now. Nobody can say, at all, what past decisions or non-decisions would have resulted in the non-emergence of some of our youth players
I was an advocate at the time of Redknapp being shown the door but I totally get the points you and others make and I am increasingly coming round to the idea that keeping him for another year or two could have been a canny decision. That said, I think that the expectations of the Chairman and fans is that the manager would at all times focus on Spurs as a priority and not let his personal ambition for the England job affect the form of the team, which it undoubtedly did end up doing. Especially so when the club stuck by him throughout his personal problems. Granted he did enough to normally guarantee us CL but we could have put it beyond doubt and Redknapp played a significant role in us not getting higher up the table IMO. Maybe I'm guilty of having a short memory in this case. I remember being immensely frustrated at some of the selection and tactical choices he made, but at the same time I probably too easily forget that Redknapp turned us around and helped get us to where we are today, gave us at times fantastic football and an unforgettable CL campaign, and played a part in the development of two of the best footballers I have seen in a Spurs shirt. You could probably even say that although I'd always identified as a Spurs fan, followed the team and played football, I really fell in love with football when Harry was at Spurs. Its a shame he left on a somewhat sour note because although he could be immensely annoying and PS makes some good points about short-termism he did a lot for us, a lot more than many would be able to do while having to work under Levy.
Redknapp did "turn us around" but it wasn't the massive transformation and miracle-job everyone made it out to be. We finished 5th twice playing pretty darn good football under Jol. We played terrible football but won a cup under Ramos. Redknapp took over a team bottom(?) of the table but that squad was, imo, still the 5th best squad in the league at that time.
No power, I'm not missing the point at all, you just simply have a skewed view of these problems that you're attempting to pass the way of Redknapp. The issues fans have with the current squad, are short term planning, understand Power? Short term, moaning the club lacks experience. Moaning signings aren't made for immediate needs and which manager had most success that way? Redknapp. If you want long term planning to be a success, it has to have the right blend of people at the club, that includes, player personal, management, directors, its not simply just looking at player movement and planning for the future. Its much more detailed and thats is why our set-up is flawed and will never result in the same success as Redknapps way, so you look at whats best for the club and that is the way Redknapp run the club. Although of course youth development is important but he would have played youngsters when they where good enough so if Redknapp was at the club (after the four years), you would have had the experience, a manager to sign players for short term success while picking youth players (if they where good enough) and that is the best way to run the club.
The squad lacks experience because there were no high quality 25 year old players coming through after Redknapp's stint in charge. In almost no field of human life is success instantaneous. It depends on solid foundations.
Hudd, you're open to changing your mind, others aren't, thats why most of the replies have been posters having a selective memory and they pick and choose which points they want to respond (as it suits their argument), thats why long term they always get proved wrong and I often laugh at fans moaning, as they don't see how they contradict themselves. Thats why in a year these fans will be moaning about Pcohettino, moaning about the way the club is being run and one of the posters on this thread (that was attacking the short term planning) was moaning recently about our lack of short term signings. Its comical at times. Although credit to you for mentioning "and played a part in the development of two of the best footballers I have seen in a Spurs shirt." as normally this is one point where fans can't bring themselves to mention.
I think you have a very partial memory of Redknapp's attitude to Bale. 1) He nearly sold him in that period (according to Clive Allen - Bale decided not to go and 'fight for his place'), 2) Even after the hat-trick against Inter Redknapp said that he thought his best position was left back(!) Harry did a lot of things very well but also has glaring weaknesses that seemed to have escaped your notice. Almost every club he managed did very poorly soon after he left. Actually we've not had it so bad in comparison to some.
Redknapp never played him at left back after that game, in-fact he moved him to his best position. Which manager played Bale at left back (after his form as an attacking winger)? AVB against QPR, so what is a bigger criticism "saying bale could end up at left back" (but never playing him there) or having a manager who thought Bale could play left back and played him there against QPR. And no Redknapp never wanted to sell Bale, the only fact we can take, is some fans (actually quite a few) wanted Bale dropped and sold, although I doubt they will admit to it now!
Boss - none of our managers (past, present or future) is going to be perfect. I've actually supported them all when they have been here, even when with Sherwood I thought we'd made a big mistake. Redknapp might well be the best of our recent managers. But to claim that his is the only possible way of running the club successfully is going much too far.
There was certainly a long-term strategy in place ever since Arsnesen was DoF, with the likes of Bale, Modric, Carrick and Kaboul being brought in to develop in the first team, while others were signed as longer-term options like Rose. True, there were plenty of players in this period who failed to make the grade - Bostock, Routledge, Gunter, Berchiche, Dervite, Dos Santos, Taarabt, Boateng and Hallfredsson all spring to mind - but the strategy was established, plus we had Kane, Townsend, Mason, Carroll and Caulker coming through the academy ranks. So to say there was no long-term strategy is a flat-out lie. Blaming Levy for failing to back the manager is a blatant cop-out, when you consider he was making equally short-term signings in 2010-11, namely Gallas, loaning in Pletikosa, and the Pienaar transfer that made as much sense now as it did then. On the subject of his transfer business in 2011-12, we wound up short of cover in several positions because we loaned out too many players in the January window. For example, Walker was the only dedicated right back we had after the January window closed - Naughton was at Norwich for the season, while in January Corluka was loaned to Leverkusen and Adam Smith to Leeds. Similarly, after the Stevenage replay saw Dawson get injured for the rest of the season, our options at centre back were a visibly declining Ledders, Kaboul, Gallas, Nelsen...and Khumalo - because Caulker was at Swansea for the season, and Bassong got loaned to Wolves in January, having been frozen out of the team since January. Saying that AVB didn't give youth a chance is another lie: Caulker had 28 games in 2012-13 while Naughton had 26, while Townsend broke into the team in 2013-14 prior to AVB's sacking - and it's not like he dropped Walker, either. As for saying we signed "a bunch of duds", how many points would we have if Eriksen and Chadli weren't in the team? Also, let me make this abundantly clear: bringing through a set of youngsters at one club doesn't mean he brings through youngsters at any other. Harry may have brought through youngsters at West Ham, but his record for bringing through youngsters at Portsmouth and QPR is non-existent. And this is where the ultimate flaw in his approach is clear: while it makes a lot of sense to make short-term signings to secure Premier League survival before thinking about a medium- or long-term strategy, at the other end of the table that can only backfire, as best exemplified by Blackburn winning the Premier League in 1995 yet finishing 19th and getting relegated in 1999.
It isn't about the perfect manager, thats why I've never believed Redknapp is the perfect manager, in terms of his overall career, you look at managers being "the best fit" in terms of the club so you may get a manager who is a success at one club, a dud at the next. The part in bold, when you can prove me otherwise (at spurs, premier league era) then (and only then) will I disagree, but hopefully it won't be too long a wait as the standard has been set, champions league qualification, attractive football and unite the fan base. Until that happens then Redknapps way will sit comfortable at the top!
HBIC you're got yourself a little confused here as the short terms signings which Redknapp made earlier where required to gain champions league qualification so you assess the signings by each window and at that time the manager was hired to gain champions league qualification , with the following season, signings made for the champions league run, the success Redknapp had ,dictated the signings we had to make if we wanted to remain top four but he was never fully backed. Levy not backing him in his final season isn't a cop out, especially as I have seen fans (anti Redknapp fans) agree that Redknapp wasn't backed fully when we gained champions league qualification so thats a shared view, but as for the final season, he wanted to keep Crouch so if Redknapp had his way, we would have had Adebayor, Crouch and Defoe and that would have increased our chances of success, so again its not a lie or a cop out, its just assessing each window and how the manager was backed. But as for AVB, that comment was for Power to make him understand the current group of players weren't ready when Redknapp was here and mentioning the group of players at West Ham, was to prove Redknapp sticks by youth (if they are good enough) and thats the main point, you give players a chance if the manager deems them capable and his record at bringing through youth players at Portsmouth would again depend on if they had youngsters (much like at QPR), you can't bring through players if they aren't there but Redknapp took Portsmouth to their highest premier league finish and won the CUP, if he had moved away from short term success, Portsmouth wouldn't have been able to stay in the premier league during his time. As for the following The duds are players that we're all aware of, Eriksen is the only real success as Chadli isn't going to last long term and again this is a point that in the long term you get proved correct on, just like when I said we signed far too many players (at one time) a view fans disagreed with at the time but now share. Although I'm sure Power and some of the others said we where building for the title with the magnificent 7!
HBIC, again, you have got yourself a little confused here as the point about there being no long term strategy which would have benefited us during the four years, was that none of the players where good enough at the time, in terms of the youngsters coming through and the focus had to be on short term success if we wanted to achieve any success. Also remember, Redknapp helped bring Sandro (for the future as-well as present) and also the scout (that moved with Redknapp from Portsmouth) scouted Verts so Redknapp would have signed younger players (if he stayed on) but during his four years he had the manage the club his way to maximise the best possible chance of success and thats what some fans forget as well as the role he played in the development of players.
The magic of Pulis will always be with this Palace squad, bringing Suarez to tears and being crowned premier league manager of the year. A beautiful moment
Suffice it to say, quite a few Spurs managers in recent times have done well off the back of players that they were neither responsible for scouting or nurturing. We can snipe at the club financial power, DoFs, scouts etc, but in the entirety things have not been anywhere near as bad as some would have believed. The average PL placings over the past 10 seasons is testament to that (we now finish according to our financial power etc) .
Thats one of the things that I have an issue with, certain managers don't get picked up on being lucky to have certain players (while other managers get labelled lucky!) ..........while other managers get ignored for their involvement in player development, while others get over praised. I guess we all have particular managers we prefer but thats why we get these debates, as at times we're as stubborn as each other!
"Thats one of the things that I have an issue with, certain managers don't get picked up on being lucky to have certain players" All have had varying degrees of (mainly good) fortune in the core level of the squads they inherited. Arry and AVB have probably been most fortunate, in having Bale/Modric in their squads when they were near stellar in their game.
There's no confusion on my part. No long term strategy in those four years? Modric and Bale were at the club already, and they were certainly part of a long-term strategy - a strategy that was in place before Ramos, let alone Redknapp, were at the club. As for Sandro, you're confused on that one too: Redknapp himself says he never even saw him play before signing him, going on Ian Broomfield's word that Sandro would be a good signing. Just think about that for a second: the club spent £8m on a player that he'd never seen play, and was signed only on the word of a scout. The issue there is Harry has previous with this, namely Marco Boogers - a player who is considered one of the biggest duds in West Ham history, and when you looks at some of the players they've had in the last couple of decades that is saying a lot. As for Vertonghen, Levy was the mover and shaker in that particular deal - Levy was seen meeting with Vertonghen and his agent in Amsterdam in May 2012, which was three weeks prior to Redknapp's sacking. Similar can be said about signing the two Kyles. When the medium- and long-term signings aren't being made by the manager, instead by the club's chairman, that doesn't say a manager has a long-term strategy in place by any stretch of the imagination - it says that, for all his complaining about the DoF structure (whilst ignoring that was the role he was in at Pompey for a time...) Redknapp does need someone to look beyond the end of the current season because, as I said earlier, we're not in a position to throw money at the problem of an ageing squad like Man Utd or Chelsea can.
I've already explained that was regarding youth players coming through at that time, not Bale or Modric and I i've already discussed the role Frank played at the club when DOF on a previous thread so you're confused as you're jumping on points made and seeing them from a different angle. And again, regarding the verts transfer, you're not understanding why the point was made, although Redknapp was aware of the player before he left and wanted him to arrive, while the Sandro transfer was based around the trust of Redknapp in his head scout (a long standing relationship). Although as we have seen, you commented on aspects you have zero knowledge of, such as young players at Portsmouth and QPR and failing to understand why Redknapp sticking with youth at west ham was mentioned. I never said we was but we spent roughly 116 million in around 20 months, so lets see how that turns out in terms of player potential, success as we're stuck with dud signings, average players who won't improve the squad and until I see otherwise, the long term plan is flawed and as Huddfro mentioned, he used to be stubborn but now understands it would have been correct to keep Redknapp on but I'll leave it as that as we have covered all the points raised and I'm sat here with a grin as I know I have to not respond otherwise this will just drag on!
