How do you rate jockeys?

[Tamerlo]

"You have to admire Fallon the jockey but it does look ugly and he doesn't seem to use his legs at all."

Bustino, agreed, and he tends to lean a bit in the saddle, with his head on one side. However, he has tremendous balance and generates great timing with his hands and arms.
There's an analogy in golf between Tiger Woods and Ernie Els- similar to Fallon versus Moore.
Tiger uses everything when thrashing the ball off the tee. Ernie is passive in his lower body but generates great speed and wonderful timing with his hands and arms. The end result is a similar distance but better accuracy from Els. Also, Els is liable to be able to play the game long after Tiger's body has cried "enough."
Likewise, Fallon will be able to ride well into his fifties, given the motivation.
PS. Moore is not unreminiscent of Joe Mercer- with his rhythmical, sustained drive for the line.

 

[Ron]

A point I have raised many times on the forum is the weight range currently used in both codes. On the flat you are basically looking at 8st - 10st and in National Hunt 10st - 12st. This means that most jockeys must live in a permanent state of malnourishment and deprivation in order to maintain their weight, and this is certainly not conducive to being alert, fit, mentally flexible and "on top of your game" generally. Would it not be possible to shift these weight ranges up a stone - the flat weights going to 9st - 11st and the NH from 11st - 13st? This would end the suffering of many jockeys and open up the profession to more aspiring youngsters. Yes, race times and performance of the horses would be adversely affected, but it would be a level playing field because everyone would be carrying more weight. Seems like a sensible course of action to me.

Poor old Doug Smith. He'd have needed a sackful of lead.

 

[Bustino74]

Absolutely right Ron. I think we need a defence of the tiny jockey league set up. If you weigh 6st 7lb where are you going to get a job these days?

I have every sympathy with OddDog's argument but it's interesting to think what that would have meant. Doug Smith would never have won all those championships. Carson would never have been spoken of in the same breath as Eddery. If you rode at 8st 4lb as Mercer did or 8st 7lb as Piggott did you could only ride the topweights in handicaps. That has changed as top weight seems to be 9st 12lb or even 10st now in flat races. In their era 9st 7lb was top and because the pattern was as it is today there was often a Group 2 horse at that weight with weights going down to 7st. Anyway interesting idea OddDog.

Why isn't Callan rated more and why did he lose his job at Varian's? Similarly Seb Sanders seemed to do little wrong yet has lost out with Prescott and Becket. What happened?

 

[King Shergar]

If you weigh 6'7 then your either a midget, or have seriously bad anorexia

 

[Ste D]

paul carberry is the most naturally gifted horseman around and most of his peers concur with that

 

[OddDog]

paul carberry is the most naturally gifted horseman around and most of his peers concur with that

I don't think you'll ever see a better ride round Cheltenham than the one he gave Bellvano to win the 2012 Johnny Henderson Grand Annual - the perfect hold up ride, timed to absolute perfection. Honoured by my Avatar.

 

[King Shergar]

paul carberry is the most naturally gifted horseman around and most of his peers concur with that

LOL LOL LOL

 

[Archers Road]

In my opinion Ryan Moore is one of the best around. Others that are very good are, Hughes, Fallon, Murtagh and Buick. The worst jockey, that gets top class rides is Joseph O'Brien. Had Joseph O'Brien chosen Ruler of the World in the Derby, that horse wouldn't have won. Moore probably would have won on Battle Of Marengo, that's how good Moore is and how poor JOB is. The Derby wasn't a case of which O'Brien horse was the best, it was a question of which horse wouldn't have the misfortune of having JOB on board

I wonder to what extent Joseph gets first pick when Ryan Moore's available. I have a suspicion that it's no coincidence the best jockey was on the best horse in The Derby. I'm pretty sure Moore could have the Ballydoyle stable jockey's job if he was prepared to move his family to Ireland.