The races I have seen recently it seems that Ryan Moore is head and shoulders above the rest. I have been watching races totally unbiased as I have stopped gambling. What do the other posters think?
How do you rate jockeys?
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In my opinion Ryan Moore is one of the best around. Others that are very good are, Hughes, Fallon, Murtagh and Buick. The worst jockey, that gets top class rides is Joseph O'Brien. Had Joseph O'Brien chosen Ruler of the World in the Derby, that horse wouldn't have won. Moore probably would have won on Battle Of Marengo, that's how good Moore is and how poor JOB is. The Derby wasn't a case of which O'Brien horse was the best, it was a question of which horse wouldn't have the misfortune of having JOB on board 
I think we will all have our favourites and for various reasons. I myself like a jockey who just uses common sense and allows the horse to obtain it's best placing without cocking it up, a horse should win if good enough basically. Some jockeys make me wonder on this point however - Jamie Spencer will do things in a race that leave you wondering if he has ever ridden in a race before but on other occasions will win a race he had no right to.
The all weather is a real test of a jockeys ability as the races are much more tactical and the jockey has to be switched on from the stalls opening, it still amazes me that some jockeys do not actively ride a start on the all weather and so lose their horse all chance before reaching the end of the first furlong. Adam Kirby for one has come of age this year through sheer hard work on the all weather.
In my opinion
Best overall horseman and jockey is Richard Hughes
Best in a finish Ryan Moore
Natural Genius Kieron Fallon
Most underated Jim Crowley
Most overated William Buick
Best up and coming Danny Tudhope
I will say I believe overall the quality of jockeyship is as high as it's ever been in my time following racing and even some riders quite low down the jockeys championship table are very good horseman and stylish race riders.
One other thing to note is that the is a little known fact that wearing blue silks with white epaulets has the same effect of cutting Samson's hair and should a Jockey wear such colours all strength in a finish leaves them. Mr Hanagan who I very much respect as a person seems to have lost all power in a finish just as his predecessor Mr Dickie Hills did, either that or he has been taking tips of him.
The all weather is a real test of a jockeys ability as the races are much more tactical and the jockey has to be switched on from the stalls opening, it still amazes me that some jockeys do not actively ride a start on the all weather and so lose their horse all chance before reaching the end of the first furlong. Adam Kirby for one has come of age this year through sheer hard work on the all weather.
In my opinion
Best overall horseman and jockey is Richard Hughes
Best in a finish Ryan Moore
Natural Genius Kieron Fallon
Most underated Jim Crowley
Most overated William Buick
Best up and coming Danny Tudhope
I will say I believe overall the quality of jockeyship is as high as it's ever been in my time following racing and even some riders quite low down the jockeys championship table are very good horseman and stylish race riders.
One other thing to note is that the is a little known fact that wearing blue silks with white epaulets has the same effect of cutting Samson's hair and should a Jockey wear such colours all strength in a finish leaves them. Mr Hanagan who I very much respect as a person seems to have lost all power in a finish just as his predecessor Mr Dickie Hills did, either that or he has been taking tips of him.
Tom Quielly is the worst jockey around imo, rides every horse like he rides frankel, sitting out back and then realises he actually has to do something when its already too late. Richard Johnson is another **** ride also. Obviously the likes of Hughes, Mccoy etc speak for themselves.
I agree that many current jockeys are very stylish, but that doesn't necessarily make them top jockeys.
Jockeys need to be able to position themselves in a race and adapt quickly to find the best openings- to avoid trouble and interference. Also, they need to be good at the gate, especially in sprints.
Richard Hughes is a very stylish jockey, but replay his ride his ride on Mars in last weekend's Epsom Derby. Diabolical!
Johnny Murtagh is highly rated by many, but he was awful in sprints at Royal Ascot last year, and lost two races he should have won- through being very slowly away.
In many ways, the advent of starting stalls in the mid sixties highlighted the poor reflexes of many jockeys. Prior to starting stalls, Breasley and Piggott were in a class of their own in sprints. When stalls were introduced, many jockeys were still "very slowly away" even though they were facing the right way- and many still are.
Of the current jockeys, Ryan Moore is strong in a finish, good tactically, and makes few mistakes overall.
Kieren Fallon isn't stylish but very strong in a finish- and loses few tight calls.
My main criticism of current riders is that they are too "one dimensional." Most of them tend to "drop their horses in" and few are tactically aware enough to dictate the pace or "steal a race."
Personally, if I had to compare say, Hughes, Murtagh, Fallon, and Dettori, with Piggott, Breasley, and Mercer- from the past; I don't think they're in the same league. I should give Fallon the vote as the best current Flat jockey- with Ryan Moore next best.
However, I certainly believe that McCoy and Walsh would compare favourably with any previous National Hunt jockeys, and I rate them better than their current Flat counterparts.
Jockeys need to be able to position themselves in a race and adapt quickly to find the best openings- to avoid trouble and interference. Also, they need to be good at the gate, especially in sprints.
Richard Hughes is a very stylish jockey, but replay his ride his ride on Mars in last weekend's Epsom Derby. Diabolical!
Johnny Murtagh is highly rated by many, but he was awful in sprints at Royal Ascot last year, and lost two races he should have won- through being very slowly away.
In many ways, the advent of starting stalls in the mid sixties highlighted the poor reflexes of many jockeys. Prior to starting stalls, Breasley and Piggott were in a class of their own in sprints. When stalls were introduced, many jockeys were still "very slowly away" even though they were facing the right way- and many still are.
Of the current jockeys, Ryan Moore is strong in a finish, good tactically, and makes few mistakes overall.
Kieren Fallon isn't stylish but very strong in a finish- and loses few tight calls.
My main criticism of current riders is that they are too "one dimensional." Most of them tend to "drop their horses in" and few are tactically aware enough to dictate the pace or "steal a race."
Personally, if I had to compare say, Hughes, Murtagh, Fallon, and Dettori, with Piggott, Breasley, and Mercer- from the past; I don't think they're in the same league. I should give Fallon the vote as the best current Flat jockey- with Ryan Moore next best.
However, I certainly believe that McCoy and Walsh would compare favourably with any previous National Hunt jockeys, and I rate them better than their current Flat counterparts.
I think Moore improves all the time. There are more dimensions to his raceriding than there was 2-3 years ago. He still frustrates me with some of his big tugs on horses (especially young horses) early in a race to get them anchored at the back of the field but he's doing it less as time goes by. He's more apt to lead than he used to and he gets more experienced horses into the race earlier than he used to. His riding of say Sir John Hawkwood this year has been exemplary.
Hughes is a whole lot better than he was 5 years ago but given the hell he was going through I don't think it's surprising. He still throws in the odd stinker but in the main is a very good jockey.
You have to admire Fallon the jockey but it does look ugly and he doesn't seem to use his legs at all.
I think it's very sad that Dettori has gone through all he has been through and I hope he at last matures and doesn't let other things get in front of his job. Until 4-5 years ago he was easily the best jockey riding and if he can face down his demons and re-establish himself he will be again.
Hughes is a whole lot better than he was 5 years ago but given the hell he was going through I don't think it's surprising. He still throws in the odd stinker but in the main is a very good jockey.
You have to admire Fallon the jockey but it does look ugly and he doesn't seem to use his legs at all.
I think it's very sad that Dettori has gone through all he has been through and I hope he at last matures and doesn't let other things get in front of his job. Until 4-5 years ago he was easily the best jockey riding and if he can face down his demons and re-establish himself he will be again.
I am going to say this, I think Jamie Spencer is finally removing the moniker of most frustrating jockey, and along with Hughes and Moore he is right up with the best for me.
Hughes is getting stick for the Mars ride but it was similar to his ride on Talent in many ways. He didn't get a clear run on either after holding them at the rear, the difference was that the leaders got away in the Derby unlike in the Oaks.
I like the way he rides, he doesn't go about horses until he needs too, unlike a good few others.
Moore is quality, but that can be said for a fair few these days. Even the middle range jockeys are very good, with the likes of G Lee, SDS and Callan all very capable.
Throw in some young claimers and you have a talented crop.
Hughes is getting stick for the Mars ride but it was similar to his ride on Talent in many ways. He didn't get a clear run on either after holding them at the rear, the difference was that the leaders got away in the Derby unlike in the Oaks.
I like the way he rides, he doesn't go about horses until he needs too, unlike a good few others.
Moore is quality, but that can be said for a fair few these days. Even the middle range jockeys are very good, with the likes of G Lee, SDS and Callan all very capable.
Throw in some young claimers and you have a talented crop.
A point I have raised many times on the forum is the weight range currently used in both codes. On the flat you are basically looking at 8st - 10st and in National Hunt 10st - 12st. This means that most jockeys must live in a permanent state of malnourishment and deprivation in order to maintain their weight, and this is certainly not conducive to being alert, fit, mentally flexible and "on top of your game" generally. Would it not be possible to shift these weight ranges up a stone - the flat weights going to 9st - 11st and the NH from 11st - 13st? This would end the suffering of many jockeys and open up the profession to more aspiring youngsters. Yes, race times and performance of the horses would be adversely affected, but it would be a level playing field because everyone would be carrying more weight. Seems like a sensible course of action to me.
Completely agree. Thought this for a long while. Jockey's punish themselves to do low weights and it's often the less popular jockeys that have to do it. They can't ride like they would if they were looking after themselves properly which leads to poor rides, weak finishes, misjudged pace etc which leads to people thinking these jockeys are bad professionals. In some cases they are but in many cases I think it's because of their prep and eating habits.
Iâve said it many times but in my opinion on the level âKingâ Kieran and Ryan Moore are a million miles ahead of their contemporaries. No other jock comes close to what they are capable of in the saddle.
Over the sticks National Hunt âsaddle monkeysâ are all the same to me and Iâve always been of the opinion that as long as youâve got one of the top 50 on board it doesnât really matter which one is atop your beast.
Over the sticks National Hunt âsaddle monkeysâ are all the same to me and Iâve always been of the opinion that as long as youâve got one of the top 50 on board it doesnât really matter which one is atop your beast.
Eddie Ahern for me until he was robbed from us, he used to dissect the field with a precision of a surgeon performing a triple heart bypass. Law is an ass
Over the obstacles ma boy Dennis O is criminally underrated, also Timothy Murphy deserves an honorable mention in my humble opinion.
Over the obstacles ma boy Dennis O is criminally underrated, also Timothy Murphy deserves an honorable mention in my humble opinion.
I pretty much agree with this although Mccoy steals races he really shouldn't be winning.
On the flat Dettori and Fallon were way ahead of anyone a few years ago but have dropped off a lot now and Ryan Moore is probably the best around now.
If I was in the shoes of an owner, and I could pick just the one from each code, I'd go with Fallon and Geraghty. Both are great big race jockeys
Fallon was the best I agree with that but personally I think Moore has upped another level this season and his riding just gets better and better. It wasn't just his performance on Derby day but he was leading jockey at the Chester May meeting and he totally owned the Dante meeting at York.
I dont know what the odds will be for top jockey at Royal Ascot but I would think Moore is an absolute certainty.
I dont know what the odds will be for top jockey at Royal Ascot but I would think Moore is an absolute certainty.
You can still get 13/8 about Moore for the jockeys title, and he's 5 clear of Hughes who is 1/2. The bookies obviously feel Moore will struggle to keep the pace he's setting, and Hughes with the backing of Hannon will have enough ammunition to overhaul him. Will be an interesting duel, aslong as they both stay free from injury, and bans
That’s an amazing price in what is basically a 2 man contest. I’m guessing that Ryan’s injury jinx, that has beset him in recent years, has some effect on that price. If keeping injury free though he’s the clear winner for me.
