What a problem ;Catts seems to have more determination than JC but i feel that JC is a much better footballer and is less of a liability- but is Catts as big a liability as some make out. JC brings more to the game and he would be my first choice every time but that doesn't mean that we need to sell Catts IMO.
Please don't get statistics confused with facts mate..Statistics can always be manipulated to make a point..
Catts reputation has been earned by his reckless tackles over his career. The fact that refs now look for him, is a direct result of his own past record and reputation! The same applies to other players around the league and it worries me how he will react to this....take Barton for instance, he obvoiusly feels its him against the world and has snapped. I am not suggesting Catts is a nutter like Barton, but he is being "kept on a short leash" by refs and anything he does gets extra scrutiny. You cannot question his spirit or work rate however given that he will always be watched carefully, he will get more bookings and red cards....is that something we want to risk? His role is further diminished when he receives a booking(particularly when it's early in the game) as he is then walking the tightrope and this has to take away from his game....he then has to fall back on his his other attributes(skill, passing, etc) we have players better at doing this. I for one feel that we need to ask more of a competetive midfield player, we need a solid, no nonsense rock, but one who can play a bit and one who can be relied upon to stay on the park. Looking at our resources, I would stick with Colbeck....the lad looks like he has the making of a really good player, has all the attributes required of this role but has no baggage or reputation to carry with him.
Just watching El Clasico and Sergio Ramos was booked for dragging a Barca back when he had been skinned, the commentatators made the point on how many red cards he has had in his career. Then went on to describe him as "committed". What is Cattermole?.
83 you cannot compare the 2 players games on Tuesday - Colback was at full back and Cattermole was in midfield - I'd play Colback at left back over Cattermole every time. Cattermole against Arsenal was outstanding - no other word for it - Man of the Match. On Tuesday Night we looked lost in the centre of midfield after he went off - and he played some lovely passes - I thought him and Colback were both excellent. Man City twice last season found out how good Cattermole is - he outplayed Yaya Toure and Nigel De Jong in the game up here (and I'm not saying he's better than them - just that he was in those games). As I said before, if people compared passing stats with Larsson and found that he attempted 10 long passes and 4 were given away or went out for a throw - everyone would say "Yeah but those other 6 were fantastic" with Cattermole it's the 4 that most people look at
Still not comparpable. Tiote commits more fouls than Cattermole, of that there is no doubt. But Cattermole commits a lot more bad ones. Tiote is clumsy and at times just doesn't undertstand that its not possible to get the ball. I'd imagine he is pretty dense. Cattermole is clearly pretty dense but the problem he has is an uncontrollable rage that makes him do silly things. Being honest, I can't remember that many bad tackles by Tiote.
Unfortunatley they are the facts! Cattermole commits more fouls than Cabaye. He is almost twice as likely to get booked, indicating that he commits more card worthy challenges. And that's without having a run through of each players horror tackles. Cabaye would be lucky to have a quarter of Lee's horror reel.
Cabaye at SOL last season went over the top of the ball and could easily have broken Phil Bardsley's leg - one of the worst challenges I saw at sunderland, and got a little tap on the back from the ref which looked like a well done. No talking to and no card Cattermole committed one foul against Newcastle at SJP (and missed Tiote by about 6 inches who rolled around like he'd been shot) and got booked - the facts may indicate he commits more cardworthy challenges but the reality is that he is a target due to his younger playing days. Cabaye is just as dirty and, not last season buyt the season before, wasn't Tiote rested at the end of the season so he didn't pick up his 15th booking and get a 3 match ban at the start of the next season?? Cattermole didn't get anywhere near 15 bookings that season As has been stated - evidence doesn't always tell the whole story - it only tells what the decision of the man in the middle is - Cattermnole committed far less cardworthy challenges last seaosn than Gerrard did yet got booked more (compare challenge for challenge) - per ception distorts facts WP
Already covered the derby Marcus. I think to be fair to players from both sides, the derby has to be looked at in isolation. I could pick out 4 or 5 particularly poor tackles from the likes of Cattermole, Bardsley and others. In Bardsleys case I don't think he is usually that dirty a player. Aggressive yes, but he threw in a couple of horrible tackles. Similar for Cabaye. Players from both sides losts their heads again and as usual there was some unsavoury stuff. I think quite naturally this has brought an element of bias to discussing Cabaye from a Sunderland perspective. I'm sure some of ours now regard Bardsley as filth. Take the derby out of it and there was not much else from Cabaye as the stats suggest. I'd hazard a guess its the same for Bardsley. So yes if you bring the derby into it, Cabaye could just look like another Cattermole. However without it, he is nothing like him. Indeed if you ask any set of supporters in the land who the dirtier player is, I think we'd all know the outcome. Everyone can't be wrong and it can't all be down to perception! To be honest I'm surprised so many of your try to defend Cattermole, its an open and shut case for most people. Funnily enough I actually think he is a decent enough player, certainly in terms of breaking down the opposition play. Tiote certainly does get booked an awful lot for tripping people and tugging people back. Its infuriating and I wish they could get him to be more selective. He's not a dirty player though. Whereas the stas cannot tell the whole story which I've admitted, they do help give you an insight. The rest is just about being unbiased and being able to be critical of your own. I can do that with Cabaye. He was filth in the derby. But when you look ove rthe rest of last and his career, his discipline is pretty good. Cattermole has been filth his whole career, hence at 24 he has 6 PL red cards and will comfortably surpass two players who are regarded as two of the dirtiest in PL history, Vieira and Keane.
I'd take issue with you on Cabaye. From what I have seen of him he's a niggly dirty player, one that does a lot of stuff just below yellow card level. He should pick up a lot more yellows than he seems to, simply on the basis of persistent foul play, but he seems to get away with more than Tiote (who is butt ugly and looks like he should be booked) or Cattermole (who is usually foaming at the mouth).
I agree with this, but then being clever enough to disguise your fouls so that refs don't book you is a skill in itself, Cattermole and to a lesser extent Tiote don't possess this skill.
Is cattermole one of the best 25 central midfielders in the league? If not, then we should look to upgrade next season. His age (still young enough to improve), inconsistency and bookings make it a tough question. My view is that he's not in the top 25, or of he is, then right on the fringe.
