How can Man Utd be skint?

[nolhman123]

I always hear from opposition fans that some how we are skint. To me it does not make sense, if we were skint why would we risk 10m on unknown smalling and 7m on unknown bebe? It just seems a bit risky for a desperate club apparently. Surley Utd would need all the money they could get.

Also when looking at our financial figures from last year they looked preety good

The Headline Numbers

£286.4m

Manchester Utd's income in 2009-10 from match day (£100m), media (£105m) and commercial deals (£81m)

£185.6m

Total costs, including staff and player wages (£131.7m) plus £53.9m in other operating costs

£100.8m

Operating profit

£40m

Interest on bank loans to the club £40m Amortisation of players' transfer fees

c. £67m

One-off costs relating to refinancing, including £41m interest rate swap, £19m in currency deviation and £6.7m in fees

£35.4m

Amortisation of goodwill, an accountancy practice involving no "real" cashflow

£83.6m

Total loss after tax

£163.8m

Cash in the bank

As you can see we made a record operating profit but had a 80m loss. However, the 80m loss was due to one off payments and good will payments which won't be paid again. These one off costs totalled 102.4m. As you can see this would have meant a profit of around 60m before the 40m worth of transfers leaving us with a healthy profit. Also another interesting point is that there is a very healthy sum of cash reserves 163.8m worth there which has not been touched for 2 years. I feel Ferguson is the one who does not want to spend in this current market because if the Glazers were so desperate they would have taken that cash by now. Also the PIK debt which was the big worry has also been paid off now as well WITHOUT UTD CASH RESERVES. Utds debt totals 500m now with interest of around 40m year and 100m and increasing operating profit gives Utd a nice healthy profit.

I can guarantee all of you right now that there will be summer signings in the summer to bolster the squad up. I just feel we have been waiting for the right moment.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...er-their-16383m-loss-is-revealed-2101793.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11762838

 

[merrysupersteve]

I always hear from opposition fans that some how we are skint. To me it does not make sense, if we were skint why would we risk 10m on unknown smalling and 7m on unknown bebe? It just seems a bit risky for a desperate club apparently. Surley Utd would need all the money they could get.

Also when looking at our financial figures from last year they looked preety good

The Headline Numbers


£286.4m

Manchester Utd's income in 2009-10 from match day (£100m), media (£105m) and commercial deals (£81m)

£185.6m

Total costs, including staff and player wages (£131.7m) plus £53.9m in other operating costs

£100.8m

Operating profit

£40m

Interest on bank loans to the club £40m Amortisation of players' transfer fees

c. £67m

One-off costs relating to refinancing, including £41m interest rate swap, £19m in currency deviation and £6.7m in fees

£35.4m

Amortisation of goodwill, an accountancy practice involving no "real" cashflow

£83.6m

Total loss after tax

£163.8m

Cash in the bank

As you can see we made a record operating profit but had a 80m loss. However, the 80m loss was due to one off payments and good will payments which won't be paid again. These one off costs totalled 102.4m. As you can see this would have meant a profit of around 60m before the 40m worth of transfers leaving us with a healthy profit. Also another interesting point is that there is a very healthy sum of cash reserves 163.8m worth there which has not been touched for 2 years. I feel Ferguson is the one who does not want to spend in this current market because if the Glazers were so desperate they would have taken that cash by now. Also the PIK debt which was the big worry has also been paid off now as well WITHOUT UTD CASH RESERVES. Utds debt totals 500m now with interest of around 40m year and 100m and increasing operating profit gives Utd a nice healthy profit.

I can guarantee all of you right now that there will be summer signings in the summer to bolster the squad up. I just feel we have been waiting for the right moment.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...er-their-16383m-loss-is-revealed-2101793.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11762838

Tbh I still wonder about how much of the cash reserves we will actually be spending and over what time period but I agree that the overall financial picture really doesn't look that bad, compared to a couple of years ago. The paying off of the PIK loans should have a positive impact and the interest payments should be a lot less severe in future.

 

[Busby 's Babe]

It's simple really, a lot of rival fans are just thick and talk constant **** to have a pop at Man Utd.

It's like how they used to call us a one man team who would be nothing without Rooney yet now they slate us for bigging up Rooney...

 

[nolhman123]

I agree we need to invest but the summer is the time to do that. For now we need to just concentrate because I can tell some fans just want to get excited about signing a player for a big fee. Ferguson knows what he is doing and this summer I can see a few leaving and few bought and I feel we will bring some life back into our central midi fled.

 

[Sam Axe]

Man Utd remains a highly profitable club and I have always believed that the money is there for players should Sir Alex decide to spend. He chooses not to spend as he says, quite rightly, that there is no value in the transfer market. People say that Utd are broke because of the snippets they read about big loans and interest payments they do not look at the wider picture which overall is looking quite healthy. All I would say to the fans is don't worry Sir Alex will spend when he thinks he needs to and when the right player becaomes available for the right price.

 

[Mick]

Chelsea spent money which was donated by their owner, the same with Man City. Liverpool spent the Chelsea money.

So if it wasn't for two massively rich owners there wouldn't have been many big signings this transfer window, apart from maybe Spurs who are getting money from **** knows where (but certainly spending like a top 4 team they need the results or else they will have to downsize).

 

[nolhman123]

Teams who are spending are desperate as there season objective is failing the 2 teams who have not is Utd and Arsenal who are playing well. Chelsea season is falling apart and spurs need top 4. Liverpool they have just embarrassed themselves. We have an amazing strike force but fairly poor midfield. That is the area Utd will address when Ferguson sees fit. If we can win the league this season, that will be a great achievement.

 

[Jip Jaap Stam]

Even if United won the quadruple, followed by the World Club Championship, became debt-free and Fergie somehow became 20 years younger, rival fans would still find something to have a go about. They can't possibly just ignore us, United are a part of many non-United fans' lives, even if in a negative way. We can only pity them.

As for Sir Alex's frugality, I think he's simply got the club's best interests at heart. OK, we may have some spare cash for purchases, but I think he'd rather leave that intact (if he can get away with it) just in case the **** hits the fan.

 

[TheStrettyEnd]

Bebe Cost 4 million. And smalling didnt cost ten either. His fee may rise to ten. these transfers are low risk, even if they faill for utd you can still sell them for a profit.

I would also imagine there is something to do with the 22 million we have to pay today for the bonds as opposed to buying players in jan.

 

[Optimistic & English]

I somehow think that Fergie is waiting untill he has to make his transfers rather than just getting them out of the way now, not to mention just not panic buying in January anyway, he knows he will need to replace Giggs, Scholes and VDS soon, but why replace them before they need to be replaced?

VDS needs to be replaced this summer as he will be going, but should we have bought a keeper in the summer, well given VDS has played well, no, as he is still playing well. Likewise Giggs will need replacing either this summer or the next but ultimalty his replacement would probably not be keen on sharing the role untill Giggs retires, and likewise why not keep using Giggs whilst he still has a good game?

Scholes is probably the one who needs replacing more desperatly as he has played less, and is likely to go in the summer, or play a diminished role next year anyways.

The summer is the best time to buy, its cheaper the players can settle better and get prepared for the season in a less pressured environment as they can gel, and i expect we will see some interesting moves in the summer.

One final point, the Glazers know the only way to make money from United and the most productive way at that, is to keep the club succesful, this involves financing a good team that can win trophies, likewise letting a good manager stick to his plan, it is not in their interests not to invest in players, it is however in their interests not to spend over the odds for players in January when the team is going just fine. If the team needs investment the Glazers will invest, it is the best longterm option to make the biggest continual profit!

 

[nolhman123]

Stretty still does not make sense. We have 163.8m cash reserves which have risen since the ronaldo sale 2 years ago. The whole thing has been blown out of proportion and we have spent 40m since the ronaldo sale proven by the accounts and this is not including the Lindegaard purchase. In the summer I can see a few players and atleast one world class player but lets wait and see as our manager will not spend over board. This season we should make around 60m profit after paying the interest rates.

 

[nolhman123]

stretty also we never really buy in january so what was you expecting? The market was mental in january and ferguson would never enter it because he knows what he is doing. Our accounts are actually healthy and we have nice cash reserves in case of a rainy day e.g need of a signing.

 

[Swarbs]

I always hear from opposition fans that some how we are skint

This is what happens when you listen to opposition fans....

We have plenty of cash in the bank, but SAF has never been one to risk making a massive signing unless it's a player he really wants to go for, or he sees a real weakness. And he almost never makes any big deals in January unless we're struggling. Top of the league, unbeaten and five points clear doesn't seem like struggling to me. And it's not like we have a major problem in any one area - we're pretty strong all over the park, just not outstanding at the moment. But bringing in one or two players at this stage of the season is hardly likely to translate into outstanding form - I can't think of any January signings that have made a dramatic impact in the same season.

For our finances, there are only three things you need to know:

1. We make £100 million operating profit a year, and pay £40 million in interest, so a £60 million net profit, in cash.

2. Last year that net profit was all swallowed up by the £67 million costs associated with the bond issue, most of which arose cos the Glazer's are f***wits who screwed up the interest rate swap on our bank debts.

3. The £80 million loss came from the amortisation of goodwill and transfer fees, which is just an accounting way of spreading the cost of things over a few years. So instead of saying we buying Berbatov created a £30 mill expense in 2008, we say it's £7.5 mill over the four years of his contract. So the £75 million of amortisation losses is just paper losses. Fans of certain rival clubs seem to be too thick to work this out. Whaddya gonna do?

So, in summary, we make a £60 million cash profit per year after paying the cost of the debt. Again

 

[rioriorio]

the only real threat was the PIK loan - that really was deadly, insane interest terms and quantity, almost credit card debt levels.

if the glazers have used the club's cash reserves to pay it off, there will be an absolute ****storm that could finish them. looking at it objectively tho, ultimately in the long run it'll slash our interest payments (and with FFP it's a good time to do it bc no sane club will be spending much over the next few years).

the rest of the debt is long term and readily renegotiable.

ideal ownership for me = glazers without the debt. they've not interfered, backed SAF when he wanted to buy and we've been successful under them. the only big brown stain is that debt. i'd love it if they just sold their NFL team or their malls and just wiped it all out - but probs not good business to rely solely on a football club!

don't fancy being owned by qatar and turned into citeh or chelsea mark #2.