Thanks for explaining RedHalf. As discussed many times before, every manager has his day. One day SAF will step away too but I think he is astute enough not to get into the tight spot we find ourselves now. Everyone points to Arsene's record as only being second to SAF's and while this may be true, current form and indeed the form of the last seven years has not been encouraging. On occasions like these I have been known to draw examples from my other sporting passion - Formula 1. Back in the 70s and through a great part of the 80s, passionate supporters of Team Lotus would point out to anyone who would listen that the team built by the late Colin Chapman was at that juncture only second in number of wins to Ferrari. Whilst that may be true, Lotus last won a world title in 1978 and their last GP victory was in 1987. You may know that they are now defunct. The Lotus name that is used in F1 today is a ' bought ' name. It is only the right to use the name and has no connection in any form to the outfit that was based in Wymondham, Norfolk. I hope that two decades or so from now, we do not have the agony of lamenting at how our club had fallen away from the days when it placed something of note in it's trophy cabinet. The way the men in suits are running it now, there is no silverware on the horizon.
That old chestnut ! Peter Hill-Wood claimed in 2008 that Arsenal had £80m in the bank !!! It is on the Arsenal website. He also said in that interview that if Wenger wanted money for players he would get it. So tell me more about these constraints of the last 5 years Piskie Robin, good post. I'm sure fans of Nottingham Forest are wondering what happened to them !!! Are you looking forward to the F1 season ? I can't wait, just signed up to Sky sports because of it !!!
He should have stayed retired. I was glad when he hung up his helmet after failing to recapture his crown from Fernando Alonso. At least we had one less driver who was prepared to put another into the wall. If not for Mercedes or Ross Brawn I doubt if anyone would have taken the trouble to accommodate him.
If you had been watching Arsenal in the 70's and early 80's you would understand the true meaning of wilderness. Since Wenger, we have seen nothing like that whatsoever, even without a trophy. If you want to compare us to then, with the team that have been in the champions league and challenging for all major honours over the last 6-7 years, then be my guest. But it is not a comparison that I would share. I'm not saying that there aren't improvement that can be made, I think that's plain as day for us all to see. But I think you need to get a sense of perspective on what Wenger has managed to achieve given the end of the invincibles era, the stadium move, the lack of transfer funds and the whole financial landscape being totally skewed out of all proportion by the mega rich investors. Even without a trophy, I think he deserves credit for keeping us right in contention with teams around us who have spent £££ on securing their success.
You make up for not spending millions in the transfer market by overpaying the prima donnas in wages.....or does that not count as a cost for the club? dont get it twisted just because you havent been allowed to spend money in the transfer market due to the agenda of your owners...i dont even blame wenger..his hands are tied...if your owners wanted to spend money and Wenger was refusing then they would get rid of Wenger or spend the money themselves...e.g Daniel Levy going out and buying VDV and then notifying Redknapp....maybe your owners are detached from the fans...
and that is your problem..i honestly dont blame Wenger...not his fault he cant buy the pieces to the jigsaw that he wishes...when he could he created the 'invincibles'
Perhaps the failure to source players may not be entirely his but from what I gather the wages policy is down to him which is supposedly unusual. Deficiencies in tactics and coaching are definitely his responsibility though. I just think he has had his day. It's highly likely that few or no other may have been able to keep us in contention on the budget that he has but as you suggested earlier, he could have made this easier for himself since we are paying too much for deadwood. What concerns me is his apparent inability to influence the style of play when we are under siege. Arsene rarely provides the inspiration to turn things round these days so yes, I do think change might be good all round. I don't want him sacked. They can create a special role for him, an ' emeritus ' style of position as suggested before.
I think it was rvb said something about judgeing AW on the form of the last 7 years. I think people forget just how close we have been to success in that time. The CL run to the final was an amazing season and i was very pleased with the club. It was exciting to watch, it felt like we could genuinely win and with small differences we would of had a european trophy. We've almost won the league, the league cup, won the FA Cup and have played very good, attractive football. I have very much enjoyed watching AW teams even after we stopped winning trophies - particularly certain players and seasons. If you look past the trophy count we have been very lucky to support a team in the position Arsenal have been in. Yes we are off the pace currently and to some it looked liek this was inevitable in the last couple of seasons - however it isn't the end of the season and if we drop from the top 4 (i still dont think we will come the end of the season) then i'm sure AW will stay on and i'm sure he will get us back competing/winning. He still has atleast 1 trophy in him for Arsenal.
I would have to say that despite no trophy, Wengers last 7 years have still been good. We came close and whilst I know there's no prize for 2nd place, it shows that he's still be able to build teams that compete. Given that he's managed to keep us in contention for all major honours, every season and given us Champions League football, every season. I don't accept that his approach is a failure.
I thought it was Hill-Wood will not let him break the wage structure. It came out in the press a couple of times in the summer. When we had money in the bank it was also reported that it had to pay the wages as well, so although the money was there it could not be spent. At the very least there is something going on at the club that they dont want us to know. Contradicting stories in the media and tales of debt, money in the bank, he can spend, theres nothing to spend. The only people who really know whats going on are in the club.
I'm amazed some feel that coming close is some sort of honour in itself. It's not a win so if it isn't a win, it's a loss. We have been losers for the past seven years!!! Tell me you're happy. Are you really? Oh I just re-read your post Piskie. You seem satisfied with being in contention. In other words, for our club to be also-rans. With mindset like this I'm not surprised winning is such a rarity.
I think you're missing the point. I'm not happy with not winning and missing out. But we're talking about an assessment of how well Wenger has managed the situation over the last 7 years and when you look at it from an objective viewpoint, you'll see that despite the break up of the invincibles, the stadium move, the financial landscape and the obsence amounts of cash that others have spent, that Wenger has done remarkably well to keep us in the Champions League, finishing in the top 4 every year and in contention for all major honours every year. But for a couple of key moments of bad luck/lack of concentration, we would have won the Champions League and the Carling Cup. That tells me that whilst there are still improvements to be made, he has got the formula right. The margins in football are fine, the difference between winning and losing can be down to one incident (they have been in our case) But because we haven't won a trophy, that doesn't mean that Wenger has got it all wrong, that view is far too simplistic. Better to recognise what he is getting right and where improvements can be made, instead of sacking everyone, which appears to be your solution.
This is the problem with Wenger in one sentence ! His change in policy. When he created the Invincibles he bought men who could handle the mental and physical battle of an entire season of English top flight football. Now he buys stupid kids who take years to develop then leave because we are not competitive enough. Players with true talent like Fran Merida are allowed to waste away, get disillusioned and leave. Wenger's policy of not offering more than a year to 30+ year olds damaged us massively too. Since the Invincibles Wenger has made mistake after mistake after mistake. He let players go that he shouldn't, instead putting his faith in kids. The Invincibles cost a tiny amount to assemble, the argument that we have to spend big is utter bollox. If Wenger bought the right bloody players, fit for bloody purpose, we would not be struggling now. He could've spent the money on Oxlade-Chambelain on a player ready to come in and do a job NOW - not in 3 years time, he could turn out to be another bloody Walcott FFS. Wenger's achievements during his first 7 seasons are no reason for him to rest on his laurels and piss about with the squad. Every manager has his day and Wenger's may very well be here right now. He seems clueless as to how to take us forward or how to fix the blatantly obvious problems we have had for years. We haven't come close for years, look at our points totals and how many play off games we have had to play to qualify for the CL. Close to the leaders in February doesn't mean **** ! "But for a couple of lapses in concentration" - it is continual, every season, one blunder after the next. the players do not learn, they are sub standard, that is why, the only person you can blame is Wenger for buying poorly.
Its been a game of 2 halves for Wenger - at first it was a breath of fresh air, plans for youth dominance, new stadium, tippy-tappy was admired, winning things, feared by teams... Second half its been money this, money that. we moved to the library, lost brilliant 30 year-olds, world class players voted with their feet, youth did not really come through, a series of mental strength claims where we regularly showed the opposite, most key games were dismal, more and more throwing the toys out of the pram, he became known as Whinger, transfer policy contrary, contradiction constantly with the Board stated position. A gradual but clear deterioration. Its been downhill year after year.
