So hang you've lost me here. You asked why we were talking two seasons, its because Rafa has had those two seasons? I then suggest if you don't like those apples, we can look at investment over three and focus on the clubs rather than managers. Your response is to say you want to talk Rafa time only. More specifically, PL Rafa time only. You then flit back to two year spend, but want to include sales from the previous period which was for players he didn't buy. I think you've got yourself a little confused. You don't want McClarens spend included but you want the proceeds of his sales? It appears we are narrowing the the playing field until Rafa looks great to be honest... You want to have your cake and eat it essentially? please log in to view this image
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/spo...evealed-amount-money-newcastle-spent-14493612 11th most on agent fees, outspent Spurs in that regard "Newcastle are at the mid-table mark but spent more in agent fees than high-flying Tottenham Hotspur."
So what you're saying is we can't defend Rafa having a tiny budget this season, because he spent £57m the year before. But we can't take into account the fact the club got relegated and made a profit of about £33m that season? Instead we then look at the previous Summer/Jan, a different manager then it becomes relevant again? So you're saying we cannot take into account the player departures, despite the fact Hudds/Brighton didn't get relegated and didn't lose many players? For me the bottom line is that net spend, whether it's this season, two seasons, or whatever, is the only realistic measurement. If you're going back 3 seasons, taking Rafa out of the equation then you're basically saying it's the board's fault entirely that we got relegated and their fault we don't spend much. Mike will be really pissed at you, man.
You are mixing up the club and Rafa. If we want to look at Rafa against Hughton and Wagner, what have they had to spend in a two year period. Rafa has spent the most (85.5m), then Hughton (57.5m), then Wagner (48m). The complication comes from Wagner having the largest rebuild task, followed by Rafa, and then Hughton. If we want to look at how clubs have operated in terms of spend/recouping it is much more complicated because Newcastle came down from the PL in that time with a squad which was able to generate huge funds from sales. Players not bought by Rafa but by Pardew and McClaren. Its probably more sensible to look at it over a longer period of 3 years,That way the overall picture gives an indication of what clubs have invested to get where they are now, even allowing for promotion/relegation. Newcastle spent 171m in that period. They recouped 98m. Brighton spent 69m and recouped 0m. Huddersfield spent 48m and recouped 14m. Newcastle net spend over a 3 year period is 73m. Brightons is 69m. Huddersfields is 34m. When you add in that Newcastle have been operating to a far higher wage budget for that entire period, then I'm afraid our fans assertions that we are being outspent by the other two to get to this stage is absolute rubbish. Rafa and Newcastle have spent a lot more on transfers and wages. We didn't spend our money badly under McClaren. I don't think the 84m spent on Mitrovic, Gini, Townsend, Shelvey, Mbemba, Saivet, Thauvin was great, but it wasn't so bad, it was just badly managed. If you look at what those players have generated and will generate in the future, we will get our returns on them. Its just ridiculous to credit Rafa with those sales and Cisse/Janmaat/Sissoko to offset the amount of money he has had to invest in the squad. Yes the squad had to be rebuilt in the Championship as serious numbers left, but he started off with a core of players who outstripped the other two quality wise. Are we also saying there is no costs attached to relegation? Despite knowing Ashley had to put 33m in the last time we came down 10 years ago? We are investing at the required rate and everyone just needs to get off Mike Ashley's back and come back to the real world.
They apparently spent close to £100 million according to transfer market: https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/tottenham-hotspur/transfers/verein/148
Just had better negotiators than Charnley. We can't pin that on Rafa of course, just the club and how its spending its money. Interesting nonetheless.
Surely our previous relegation (which was the fault of Rafa), the fact we had just come up from the Championship and our poor form in December (the fault of Rafa) all mean that Charnley was having to negotiate in a situation in which he will have to have offered more to get players. Charnley is a fine negotiator leading a well oiled machine which Rafa is hindering. We can pin these increased fees on Rafa.
I accept Charnley has upped his game significantly this season, but looking at it, it appears he has done some of that by simply paying agents above the going rate. It suggests it can be difficult for Newcastle to attract the right players - no one is to blame for that except maybe McClaren (ultimately Ashley/Charnley appointing him but largely McClaren). Its another kick in the teeth for the Conspiracy Bunch that say we won't pay the going rate on all things transfers mind. Those guys and girls are beginning to look really silly as more information gets released. Be interesting to see how the accounts stack up and if we have all this imaginary money they say we have swilling around doing nothing. Looking at this thread and others though, I'm sure the goalposts will simply move again as they don't like cold hard reality. I have to say I think you are being very harsh blaming Rafa for the relegation. He did ok with the time he had. Yes when took us over we were one point away from safety with a game in hand, but he picked up a team low on morale and a ship difficult to turn around. I've said before its no go blaming a manager who takes over a team from Nov onwards - history tells us its against them. Fair enough I can accept that from August - January this season his tactical errors were fully responsible for our home form. Stevie Wonder can see that and it has been borne out since he sorted it out. However I think you are over estimating his issues in December. Yes the home form was horrific due to tactics, but away we were ok from Nov 28-1st Jan. In that time we played 5 away games and picked up 7 points. 2 of the games were against Chelsea and Arsenal - far from shameful results. I prefer to be realistic and criticise when its due like the home form. Then give credit when its due also, like the away form and sorting out the home form. Same goes for Charnley and Ashley. When they appoint McClaren they have to take their medicine. When they supply Rafa with over 120m over two seasons, paying agents over the odds, getting him quality players in notoriously difficult January windows, then they deserve credit. I like to try and be balanced and leave the happy clapping, twisting reality, and conspiracy theories to other people
Better negotiators than Charnley...who nonetheless agreed to pay £30MM for Sissoko. I’d hate to see your idea of a bad negotiator in that case.
Nar, he just ended up handing it over to Ritchie a couple of seasons back mate. He was wearing it in Liverpool's CL final if I remember rightly
We all make mistakes. Some of them just happen to be absolutely massive. Despite Sissoko, I don't think we're in a position to criticise a club who've bought Alli, Vertonghen, Alderweired, Son, Sanchez, Dier, Eriksen, Lloris, Wanyama...etc etc
This post makes no sense. In response to the Rafa Facts you say "er......Pardew!!! Pardew's a ****" Sums up the reluctance to deal with reality.
