The difference is that Yann has the first touch and quality, but also works his socks off, and is generally first to the ball, DS is too often second to the ball, turning 50/50s into 10/90s and puts pressure on the other players
Hollands
- Thread starter Eastbourne Addick
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SuperChrissyisfantasticPardswasatrocious
Well-Known Member
Agree that Yann is combative as well as technical. Dale Stephens is more of a cultured player who likes time on the ball and often looks for team mates to make runs in to space.
He's one of the players who will benefit from playing in a better quality division next year.
He's one of the players who will benefit from playing in a better quality division next year.
Until yesterday I was a committed Stephens fan. I took the view that his obvious class and talent would tell once we have worked out how to accommodate him in the team. I also agree that with more time and space he will be a better player. But my view altered yesterday after what was just about the most inept and gutless performance I have seen by a charlton player in a while, made all the more obvious by the blood and tears being spilt all around him by others. He does things repeatedly that terrify me, most obviously the reverse pass without looking. I've said it before and I know I am becoming boring on the subject but he is either going to cost us goals or get a teammate a broken leg with these hospital passes. And, unlike my views on BWP yesterday on which I have mellowed just a little overnight, my view on Stephens has hardened. Don't get me wrong. This has been a slow burner. He has been annoying me more each game. I still think he is potentially a massive asset. But he now has a lot to do to convince me - and everyone near me yesterday - that he is the future of our midfield.
Kermit was like the faithful family dog yesterday, even with one leg not working and blood on his face he still kept chasing the ball around the pitch (at the end of the first half) because he thought that's what his family needed him to do 
no thought for his own good just to aid the common good 
no thought for his own good just to aid the common good 
SuperChrissyisfantasticPardswasatrocious
Well-Known Member
It is an extremely good point. But I just wonder whether that's where he is told to play or whether he just gravitates naturally to that position. Hollands looks to me a more natural defensive midfielder than Stephens but when they are in the team together they both play deep and get in each others' way i cant believe thats what they are told to do! Andy Hughes anyone?
Andy Hughes- what was he like against Dartford?
Stephens must be told to play a certain role. Against Notts. County he moved forward in the second half, and had a pretty good 45 minutes. Different player really.
Stephens must be told to play a certain role. Against Notts. County he moved forward in the second half, and had a pretty good 45 minutes. Different player really.
SuperChrissyisfantasticPardswasatrocious
Well-Known Member
You'd think he would be dropped if it's a question of DS not being able to follow instructions? I think CP want's him to sit deep and play the ''quarterback'' role (which doesn't work in football unless you are Pirlo-esque).
Stephens needs a foil.. Hollands was that at the start of the season, but as the season has gone on their partnership has deteriorated. If he wasn't banned then it would have been Hollands for the run in, Stephens for the Championship for me. I just hope we retain him and push him 10 yards higher up the pitch next season. Definitely a player there.
Stephens needs a foil.. Hollands was that at the start of the season, but as the season has gone on their partnership has deteriorated. If he wasn't banned then it would have been Hollands for the run in, Stephens for the Championship for me. I just hope we retain him and push him 10 yards higher up the pitch next season. Definitely a player there.
Dunno Bill, wasn't there. But I'm not sure that a first game in yonks in a rookie team is the best place To judge someone. Hughes was immense when he played earlier in the season when he replaced, now who was it? Ah yes, Stephens. We also played the best football that we have played all season during those games. I think Stephens and Hughes together would work but, as you say, Stephens would have to be told where to play and stick to it.
PS. How you doing? Back to health I hope.
The fact that Taylor came on instead of Hughes to close the game out suggests that Hughes is either not fully fit or well down the pecking order, as he was the obvious player to shore up midfield, which is where the problem were.
He's still ahead of Alonso though...
He's still ahead of Alonso though...
FHB that is an irrelevant comparison since he was playing as a senior player in an inexperienced team with the missing Alonso in midfield. When he played earlier in the season he was exactly what we hoped it said on the tin, a defensive midfielder who allowed the other three in midfield to rip forward and take the opposition apart.
On Monday's performance we need somebody who could do that to allow either DS or BP to release their skills in attack. That way the ball is on the ground a lot more and we can really see the skills of our attackers.
By the way so long as we do have a proper defensive midfielder in position for next season I believe the rest of the team (even Hamer) would cut it in the championship. They were recruited with that in mind, not for CP to go and spend a fortune at the end of the season. If you guys don't rate Hughes, Hollands or Stephens as that defensive mid position who do you reckon we should try and buy??
I was impressed by Bury's no. 8. I think he was called Hughes. Gave our midfield a lesson in midfield competitiveness.
SuperChrissyisfantasticPardswasatrocious
Well-Known Member
Still questions over the right midfield berth for me. Plus another goalscorer - someone with proven Championship pedigree to compete with BWP and Kermo is a must. A good 5 signings to add competition and I'll be happy.
Relating the off-topic to the topic - Hollands will need to step up next season and be more consistent. He's looked ''tired'' for the past few months.
Defensive midfielder is the easiest position to play and the easiest position to recruit on the cheap. (Look at what Swindon did!) But don't worry. By next season the novelty of triplets will have worn off and Hollands will be back to his excellent best.
Apologies guys. Just realised that my rant has turned a Hollands thread into a Stephens thread. That said the two go hand in hand. I'm with Eddie in that I think Hollands could be the defensive midfield option. He and Stephens just need to understand how that requires them both to play. For all my advocacy of him, it is clear that hughesy won't cut it in the championship even if CP hadn't effectively binned him as he clearly has already. He is in his mid 30s and will be moved on hollands was very effective when he played in the forward role alongside Hughes. But that doesn't meant that he couldn't be the defensive cog.
Treading on dodgy ground here but I have to disagree with Eddie here. It's a bit like being in a quiz- the questions are easy when you know the answers. Looking at it from the opposite point of view from Eddie; I could never read the game when I played and have always been impressed by those who can, and I sympathise with those who can't. For instance when Hughes came into the side I was not too pleased because at first I didn't rate him. But I spent a lot of time watching him and came to notice how he keeps an eye on his team-mates, and quietly slips in to cover for anyone who gets drawn out of position.Poor Stephens on the other hand just doesn't get what is required of a DM, and is always chasing the ball. I won't have it that he isn't trying, he is just not comfortable there.
I agree with this FHB. Take Semedo for example, we all thought he was a good defensive midfielder as he was strong in the challenge and loved a good no-nonsense tackle. But countless times we commented on the big gaping holes in our midfield and most of the time, it was because neither him nor Racon could read the game well enough.
Its one thing being able to tackle, but you need to be able to read the game well enough to make doing so almost unnecessary. Also a crunching tackle isn't always the best option, sometimes its better to just shepherd the opposition player into a worse position.
Ah, Racon! Another player I'd watch just to see what he wasa actually doing. A lot of the time he'd just trot round the pitch after the ball. Done it myself many's the time!