Yes: GEOFF BOYCOTT has apologised to Michael Yardy for his insensitive remarks about the England all-rounder’s mental illness. Sussex captain Yardy flew home from the World Cup suffering from depression and is now taking another break because of the condition. BBC pundit Boycott wished him well and said last night: “When Michael flew home from the World Cup I made some insensitive remarks and for that I am sorry. I really hope he gets better and gets the help he needs. “In my day, if you were down or depressed, we were just told to pull ourselves together. Now we realise it is not that simple.” Geoffrey is a bit of a twat, but a much bigger man than Ingham. Anyway, even if his prejudices were right and hoolgans did cause 96 deaths, it was still a massive failure of the police and other emergency services and the FA for selecting such an inadequate venue, to the extent that they were negligent and should have been held to account. After Heysel, which of course was caused by thugs, a policeman and the head of the Belgian FA were tried and convicted in addition to 14 Liverpool 'fans'. And it only took them 4 years to do it.
Looking back to football at that time there was very much an 'Us and Them' attitude with police fairly across the board. Many of the police on duty that day will have been the same police Thatcher used to 'destroy' the miners, they will have had a sense of being 'untouchable' and senior officers ruled by fear, so the changing of statements will have left the individual officers knowing they were being made an 'offer they couldn't refuse'. No doubt the police explanation, fabricated as it was, suited the Government and Ingham's view of football supporters, they never stood a chance. Fair play to Andy Burnham for sticking at it and forcing the Inquest in the end..
Lads, both a tad unnecessary.....take a deep breath, it's a emotive subject and not worth falling out over.....
Yes, a very good speech. I never knew there was a 97th casualty of this disaster until he said it today. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...t-to-friend-who-died-in-disaster-8142470.html
Boycott must have thought his television contract was in jeopardy... I'm not saying Ingham shouldn't apologise, I just can't see it happening. What's anyone going to do - sue him? Can't see it
I don't think you can understate how much the red scousers hated the police at the time, and how much it was reciprocated. I remember in the 70's watching Liverpool fans gobbing on a PC's uniform (over his shoulder) every time the copper wasn't looking. I saw spitting and swearing at police and trying to chuck marbles under the horses hooves. I'd never seen that level of acrimony with any other away fans.
I am appalled and amused in equal measure by our ability always to see everything in simple black and white terms. In general, people accepted entirely the account given at the time that Hillsborough was a tragedy caused by a catastrophic mistake which in turn was because of the appalling behaviour of the mob of Liverpool fans trying to get in most tanked up with booze and many without tickets. Over the years doubts have crept in and, at last, the true picture has emerged. The fans were blameless for the tragedy that engulfed them. However we have now worked out in simple black and white terms that the Liverpool fans were victims of the police and the gutter Tory press. The latter even join in that condemnation. Nowhere does anyone mention at all the behaviour of some Liverpool fans a few years earlier at Heysel. Granted the loss of life on that occasion had similar issues of a stadium unfit for the purpose of safely housing such a massive game as well as the incompetence of the authorities at the time. After all, it is not as if the authorities did not know about the English disease. They could not really have claimed to be surprised by the level of violence or have been unaware of their duty to ensure strict segregation of rival fans. However the spark which ignited the Heysel tragedy was the behaviour of some Liverpool fans. Their reputation was not all entirely down to Fleet Street's finest and Margaret Thatcher's prejudices. Liverpool fans were, with some justifcation, not trusted to behave with decency. Equally, although I have not followed the evidence over the entire two years, I presume that it has not been forgotten that for some reason, there was a massive delay in the majority of Liverpool fans getting across the Pennines. I can't now remember the precise reason. However the authorites and the referee should have been made aware. These days, starts are delayed in such situations. Who knows what would have happened if the decision had been made to delay the start by an hour or so. So people, let's not forget that for every disaster, every tragedy that occurs the reasons why are multi-faceted. There are more than 50 shades of grey between the polarised views which are force fed upon us.
After reading the very sad and tragic book 'Heysel, The Truth' written by Francesco Caremani, I can see why Liverpool fans were hated by a fair few supporters and police of the time. Of course it's no excuse for the events that happened at Hillsborough, but might go some way to explain a lot of attitudes at the time.
This whole thing is difficult and very sad. I went up to Liverpool in 87/88 season where are train had bricks thrown at it. Our bus got done in the same way and just about every person young and old on the way to the ground abused or stuck their fingers up at us. Even the police threatened me and my mate for doing nothing. The whole place was a sh2thole. Simlar to Beth when i saw the disaster unfold on TV and thought for many years after that the fans were to blame because of my experience with them. I was wrong, as proved yesterday, the Police played a major part in this disaster. I just hope we can all move on now. I heard a woman today on Sky news saying South Yorkshire police force should be disbanded and the name changed? No fan should die going to a football match. But now we must move on and let them poor souls rest in peace.
Exactly right. It seems to be a Liverpool FC issue, rather than City of Liverpool. I never saw similar problems with Everton fans
I moved to live in Italy 3 years after Heysel. Believe me there is no love lost for Juventus from fans of any other Italian club and I was in Milan, where both clubs have a long standing rivalry with the 'Old Lady'. But there was still a residual antipathy towards all English people as a result of what happened in Brussels. I really resented the guilt by association, got sick of having to explain that we weren't all like the Liverpool fans. Of course the Italians were very hypocritical, several times I had to wander through tear gas to get to the bar after matches at the San Siro, and stabbings were depressingly regular. AC Milan fans had particular problems with Lazio (a right wing club) Inter (naturally, but also right wing) and Napoli (southerners). There is still a level of suppressed violence and threat at big Italian games that has nearly disappeared here and I have not encountered at all in Germany, even though the attendances are way down on what they used to be. As you well remember mate one of the legacies of Heysel was that the English fans were treated like dangerous animals at Italia '90. Some of them deserved it, but most didn't. I remember one young lad in tears as police confiscated all of his coins going into the stadium in Cagliari, which was nearly all the money he had. In my poor Italian I tried to ask them at least to keep the cash so he could collect it after, but no way.
I would qualify that by saying "The fans who died were blameless for the tragedy that engulfed them" We did not have an enquiry culture back then in the same way we do now. Enquiries in the 70's and 80's into football violence were the reason fences were put up in grounds around the country in the first place. Didn't we start fencing off pitches after Thatcher said she'd crack down on hooliganism? (Ironically after Heysel when the supporters of Liverpool were the ones responsible for so many deaths) The enquiry was given the go-ahead after intense pressure from Liverpool and other football fans. Giving the green light to an enquiry such a long time after the event and only because of increasing popular demand meant that there was no way any blame was going to be placed on the behaviour of the Liverpool supporters on the day. My opinion only but I suspect blaming Liverpool fans in any way was removed from any scrutiny. Family and friends of the 96 have been listened to and given statements to the enquiry. 600 other fans were injured and I am certain they have been listened to as well as any eye witnesses that could give an enquiry an idea of what transpired. How many Liverpool supporters who turned up late and pushed their way in (even if they should not have been allowed to do so by Police or stewards) gave evidence to say that their actions could have in any way contributed to what happened? Huge failures of organization by the Police, poor safety from the stadium managers and hundreds of Liverpool fans surging into a poorly designed football terrace but after the enquiry it will only be the Police and Sheffield Wednesday that will have the finger of blame pointed at them. "It wasn't my fault that I turned up late, p*ssed with no ticket and surged in with all my mates yer honour, the Bizzies should have stopped us and the ground wasn't fit for purpose. Obviously." Is that a reasonable defense for your actions? I can only imagine how QPR would feel if it had happened at Loftus Road to other supporters or to us if we'd been in the Leppings Road end that day instead of Liverpool. I'm not without sympathy, far from it, but taking their fan's actions out of the equation completely isn't right. I think the enquiry had an agenda and stuck to it. Justice of sorts but it leaves too many questions un-answered.
You have really got the wrong end of the stick here Grove "It wasn't my fault that I turned up late, p*ssed with no ticket and surged in with all my mates yer honour, the Bizzies should have stopped us and the ground wasn't fit for purpose. Obviously." Is that a reasonable defense for your actions?"...actually...that is what the police is therefore There is no indication that more tickets were sold that the end was able to accommodate....So all people with a ticket should have been able to enter and safely watch the match. It was the responsibility of the police/stewards to get that to happen. There was poor planning....from start to finish When the two central pens were full they should have been closed....and all later fans diverted to the outside pens The policed paniced and opened the gates...that is the ONLY way people without tickets got in. I saw the entry statistics on the documentary...If all ticket holders had arrived before 2.30, with the rate of entry at the rate shown in the CCTV cameras....30% of them would have still been ouside the gate at 3.00. There was something really wrong that day, even before the tragedy happened Us fans should never have had the ability to impinge on the safety aspects...that is why the police/stewards are there...that is what failed!!! Otherwise we will all muscle our way into the dug-out at 3.01pm and sit with JFH, to give helpful advice.... well I certainly would...especially if I had been at the pub before hand
"Hillsborough - the documentary the whole country needs to watch ....... Hillborough is, quite simply, must-see television – not least for those millions of people who don’t know all the shocking, and often sinister, details of the ongoing story." http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news...ough-documentary-whole-country-needs-11295738 The documentary is part of the ESPN 30 for 30 series and (I think) couldn't be shown in this country until now because of the inquest. It aired on Sunday night and is still available on iPlayer. http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07bgnkn/hillsborough If you can't get iPlayer then it's also on YouTube. It's not an easy watch. Some of the pictures and eyewitness accounts sicken just as the extent and relentlessness of the cover up and smear campaign anger, but I'd recommend it to anyone interested in the truth of what happened that day.
Watched last night... Shocked and horrified. The institutionised cover up, over 25 years is unbelievable. The changing of the bobbies pocket book without their knowledge....the testing of all blood , including those of children, for alcohol. The old boys network of "looking after each other" by coroner, pathologist, police chief...disgusting... Maggie's ethos generated that atmosphere...and it perpeturates to this day.
