Great to see the SYP finally, finally brought to book for their criminal negligence and corruption. Hang'em high.
29 years ago today, 96 people killed by negligence in the football and policing world. Never forget those terrible lessons. Especially at Hull City where our owners this week published a consultation that proposes an ID card system, effectively blaming fans for the club’s own mismanagement of fans. A somewhat chilling echo of Hillsborough in a different context.
On a day when families will be mourning their loss, you do the right thing in reminding us and then go too far. There is no comparison, there is no echo and you will struggle to find any context that the vote currently being undertaken can be linked to the criminal disaster of Hillsborough. You can quote mismanagement, policing, supporter relations all you like, but in my opinion, you need to rethink.
That's an extremely harsh rebuke there. The intentions (my reading) were never meant to put the two outcomes of mismanagement on a par. Perhaps on two extremes of the same spectrum. Just that mismanagement is endemic. Give the man a break, you know what he was saying & intended to say. Perhaps an ill choice of words. A restate, not a rethink ?
I am not going to even try to defend my words. We are talking about footballer supporters who went to a game of football and did not return home. I would urge anyone who believes that there is any comparison to the situation at Hull City to this, to think again.
I don't know why people get so upset about comparisons like this. No one's saying it's just as bad. Like when people argue that charitable donations don't give an individual a free pass to do whatever they want, and point out that Jimmy Savile employed that particular tactic. It doesn't mean they're saying someone else is as bad as Savile. Always seems to me like a really weak way to discredit someone's argument by feigning outrage.
That'd be fine if that was it. It's the pretend shock and outrage which is irritating. Generally by someone who disagrees with the person making the point.
Well, they wouldn't be shocked or outraged if they agreed with the person making the point, would they?
There is no pretend shock and outrage and no matter who posted it I would respond in the same way. I replied with an honest opinion. Now here is the thing, you appear PLT to be endorsing the view that there is a link between the disaster and the vote. How about this, use your knowledge of the site and repost the last few posts on the Liverpool forum. See what they think. I am sure that you will get a few objective and constructive replies. Could it be that you are agreeing with the poster, because of who he or she is rather than because you agree with what has been posted? Actually scrub all of the above, even having this conversation is leaving a bad taste in my mouth, I am not responding further. RIP the 96
Presumably, it was a reference to the attempt to introduce ID cards for football fans in the aftermath of Hillsborough.
Except it wasn't. The attempt to introduce ID cards was in 1988, Hillsborough was in 1989. It was a response to football hooliganism, the Luton v Millwall riot 2 or 3 years earlier bringing things to a head and starting the discussion on ID cards.
Indeed, but there was still a renewed attempt to reintroduce them after Hillsborough, with the Taylor Report rejecting the idea.
I thought the Taylor Inquiry into Hillsborough rejected the ongoing proposal by the Givernment to introduce ID cards for every supporter attending a game on the basis that it could potentially cause a similar incident if systems failed. As the Allam’s are proposing to introduce ID Cards for all supporters attending a City game I think, taken in the right context, linking the issues is fair.
Oh dear. I did not compare Hillsborough with the current vote. Mine had been a consistent voice arguing for justice over Hillsborough for thirty years, when some on here were still peddling the lies of the Sun and the SYP. I did not say that Hillsborough and the current vote were of equal gravity. Read what I said, not what you wanted me to say. Hillsborough was a very bad thing. And it led to some appalling behaviours that sought to put the blame on fans for institutional failure. Ehab Allam wants to punish supporters for his mismanagement of the concessions scheme by bringing in ID systems that punish supporters. That behaviour was, and remains, the only link, or echo, that I was referring to. I’m particularly perplexed why The Omega Man has launched into me this way, wilfully misinterpreting what I have said. He knows I do a fair bit for supporters of Hull City, and I’m genuinely puzzled why I am seen in his eyes as worthy of such poor treatment. A mark of the true man, I suppose.
Thete wasn't an attempt to re-introduce them, They hadn't been introduced. The proposal had passed all the hurdles but was awaiting final passing enabling implementation. After the FSA brought up a prospect of hordes of fans waiting for their cards being scanned holding up things even more and leading to similar scenes all over the country Taylor said the proposed scheme should be scrapped. He also said fences should be taken down as they had contributed tomthe disaster. Of course these had been put up because of the previouscactions of football fans charging across open terracing. As at Heysel. But that gets pushed to one side...