It's been a form of torture in various ways for anybody directly involved with it, apart from obviously the sick, immoral bastards involved in perpetuating the lies and those who at various points bought the lies, until they actually got some sensible, humane, non-corrupt people to investigate and examine the events and evidence. They've had to endure the disaster itself and/or the multi-faceted effects of that, then the smear campaign, accusations and defamation against themselves and their families and then the denial by the establishment. The initial response, inhuman attitude and doctoring job by the police and authorities and the ongoing myth-making, dismissals and non-accountability makes you lose faith in humanity but what the Independent Panel, other groups, individuals and families achieved restores and revives faith and makes you believe that there are good people in the world and exposes the establishment as what it is, a cesspit of cynical manipulation and barbarity
Watched it and was appalled by the scenes. Absolutely horrendous! Duckenfield was directly called out as a liar and rightly so. My husband watched it with me and although he isn't a football fan, nor even a Liverpool fan, he's worked with the police as a civvy and he couldn't believe what he was seeing. My only worry is that showing it now might be seen as influencing a jury in the future if or when trials ensue, because if any of them saw it and were nobbled for jury service they'd go straight to the guilty verdict and chuck away the key. We live in a society of the fair trial, quite rightly. Perhaps someone who knows more about the law than I do can dispute that, though, and anyway we've already seen a few documentaries about it with equally damning footage.
Even though you're innocent until proven guilty in a court of law Duckenfied himself has admitted his guilt more than once since the day of the disaster, it's been proven that the key factor in the 96 deaths was the opening of the gate. So if as he should be Duckenfied is charged he will have no option but to plead guilty when in court, he might claim he "froze" etc as an excuse for gross negligence of his duty but he's as guilty as sin for the gate, the following crush, the deaths, the lies, the 27 year cover up. The **** should be made an example of by the judiciary to show that the kind of behaviour shown by Duckenfied and his fellow masonic South Yorkshire police will not be tolerated in British society end of. JFT96
That was one of the more shocking parts, the fact they had no officers directing fans to the other (possibly poorly signed) entrance into a different section of the stand so they all simply headed for the opening right in front of them into that one pen, and then the general lack of communications, statements being altered about walkie-talkies to make it seem like they were better equipped and organised than they were. To say he 'froze' is utterly ridiculous, police are supposed to be trained to deal with situations, if that's his excuse then he wasn't properly trained and shouldn't have put himself forward for the job so he's still culpable along with the whole force for positioning individuals at events when they're not fit for duty
True, but you know how people's minds work. Wouldn't bother me one bit if those responsible went straight to jail because they're bang to rights IMO, but they will have to be tried in court unless they plead guilty (which they should but I can't see happening). They'll stump up some sort of defence to justify what they did.
You can't get to that level of policing and leadership and freeze. He wasn't prepared for the job judging by the lack of knowledge he displayed of what he was policing. It was just too easy to let the drama play out and blame the fans.
This. A bit like a Captain of a ship abandoning, it's not an excuse - you go to jail. He immediately knew what he had done and chose to go straight with 'they broke the gate'. Cowardly piece of **** can rot.
I'm more concerned with the cover-up and who was involved. He wouldn't be the first coward in a position of responsibility who **** himself and lied (which is not to forgive him at all, that's for the families and the justice system). I was in conversation with that establishment apologist Peter Hitchens last week, the latest to come out with the verdict being a 'Diana-style grief fest' and that he doesn't believe 'All the fans were angels and all the police were devil incarnate' (who claimed that was the case? ). Important to point out that he's great friends with Simon Heffer, who wrote the infamous Boris diatribe about Ken Bigley. My questions to him to consider, that of course he didn't publish (he generally only publishes those that agree with him - "Oh Mr Hitchens, thank you, thank you, thank you for standing up to all this Hillsborough hysteria" sort of cack, as he's basically Katie Hopkins with a degree - went as such: - Why did Duckenfield tell the lie in the first place about the gates being broken down if he'd done no wrong. - Why did Peter Wright and SYP not stop that lie being told when they knew from their own officers that had opened the gates that this was not the case. - Why did the CCTV tapes go missing from a locked control room to which only SYP had access - Why did SYP only admit the gates hadn't been broken down by the fans after the BBC independently publish film of the police opening the gates - Why, on the day after Ingham visited the scene and talked to the press of a 'Tanked-up mob' did a narrative appear in the national press of fans urinating on the emergency services and thieving from the dead. Never mind the obvious evidence of negligence and duty of care, but is there not a prima facie case of conspiracy and perverting the course of justice here? His other thrust though is that Burnam's statement to the House about SYP stringing out the Inquest for two years and repeating the same old slurs is outrageous as everyone has the right to a fair trial. I tried to point out to him that the second inquest only came about because the HIP uncovered falsified statements and altered evidence submitted to the first Inquest 'on an industrial scale' that SYP apologised for - then promptly re-submitted to the second one. Besides which, if and when Duckenfield and, more importantly, in my book, others are charged with offences they will enjoy all the best lawyers and legal support that taxpayers' money can provide -as they have for nearly three decades. And some turds are still claiming that the only reason the families have kept going this long is for compensation - there doesn't seem to be any question from establishment stalwarts like Hitchens as to the tens of millions thrown at SYP to defend the undefendable. Hitchens likes to portray himself as some sort of anti-establishment iconoclast: is he ****, he's just a servant of the state, like all the rest at the established media that bleat about a free press holding the high and mighty to account, but almost always side with the authorities when it suits the agenda of their proprietors.They try to pretend that they're the upholders of liberty and truth (that word again), and the truth is that they're nothing more than the flying monkeys of the rich and powerful that they delude themselves that they keep in check. The old adage of pet and master, and who owns whom comes to mind. Here's the article, btw: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...-Ken-wouldn-t-dare-tackle-racist-Muslims.html
This copper knowing he can't blame the fans at Hillsborough on the day has gone for retrospective blame, and he seems to forget that the fences were in place well before the 1985. Hillsborough officer’s powerful account of disaster goes viral please log in to view this image Andy Frith (right) helps an injured fan at the Hillsborough disaster A powerful account of the Hillsborough disaster by a former police officer who ‘broke ranks’ to help the injured has been viewed by thousands of people on the internet. A Facebook post by Andy Frith, who served in South Yorkshire Police for 17 years and reached the rank of inspector, has been shared more than 27,000 times after he shared an account detailing both the lack of command by senior officers and defending the police on the ground who did their best to help. Mr Frith said: “The media coverage over the past few days, comments in the House of Commons and the suspension of the South Yorkshire Chief Constable all persuade me to post my thoughts. “I was a Constable, Sergeant and Inspector in South Yorkshire Police and served 17 years before leaving to run a family business. I was there on the pitch at Hillsborough when the tragedy occurred working as a PC in a public order serial which had been called into the ground when the shout went up for assistance. “I witnessed the lack of command. The almost complete radio silence from the control room at the ground and the ridiculous decision to line up our serial in front of the Notts fans to prevent a pitch invasion whilst people at the Leppings Lane end were in obvious trouble. “I broke ranks at that moment with several other officers and began helping the injured from the pitch because it was obvious that senior commanders were not reacting to the situation as they should have been. “There is no doubt in my mind that poor policing decisions led to the deaths that day and it comes as no surprise that those in charge tried to deflect the blame. The culture in the force at that time was demonstrated in person by the majority of the chief superintendents and senior command team. I have never come across a more arrogant, pompous and unlikeable group of individuals. They had absolute power over their divisions (districts now) and were completely unaccountable. What they said went and they were completely but mistakenly self assured in their ability. “That it took so long to discover the depth of the cover up from the then Chief Constable Peter Wright to the chief superintendents and those under their direct command is no surprise to me as no one would have dared to speak out.” Mr Frith added he objected to media headlines describing the force as ‘rotten to the core’ following comments made in the House of Commons by Shadow Home Secretary Andy Burnham about the leadership of South Yorkshire Police. He said: “The huge majority of officers on duty that day did just that – their duty. They helped where they could, used initiative when the chain of command failed and should be commended for their work. “The current Chief Constable David Compton has been suspended by the Police and Crime Commissioner Dr Alan Billings. Yes he takes responsibility for the force but he wasn’t there 27 years ago. “It looks as though he was suspended because he tried to defend his force during the inquest proceedings. I think our Dr Billings is coming up for re election and needs to be able to say to the electorate “Look how tough I am”. This has nothing to do with proportionality. “And the fans – yes like all football crowds some of their number were intoxicated. I know because I saw it and we were confiscating beer from vehicles all morning. A huge haul of trays of lager and beer cans which had been brought to drink before the match. This was nothing unusual. “This was the culture at the time and the reason fans were penned in like sheep at all grounds. Their behaviour in the previous decade had necessitated separation because of continued violence. So to say the fans had no responsibility is also wrong. Perhaps on the day the fans did not contribute directly to the 96 deaths but as a group their general behaviour over previous years had led to the point of wire cages on terraces. “Yes, let the people responsible face the music. Yes let Chief Superintendent Duckenfield and his immediate team be called to account but please don’t call South Yorkshire Police rotten to the core. It wasn’t then and I don’t believe it is now.” Read more: http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/hills...f-disaster-goes-viral-1-7900315#ixzz48FNHjxGo
To this I can only repeat the case of Georgia Varley (above) and the different standards of responsibility. It tells you everything you need to know about who protects who in our society, and, more importantly, why.
Just watched the documentary on the Beeb and my blood was boiling at just how callous and devious the cover up was by the South Yorkshire Police. When Paul Middup came on and was stating that the families "won't accept justice" I was shouting at my TV. The Sun's article was scandalous and the worst kind of gutter journalism and Sir Bernard Ingham's comments should lead to him losing his knighthood. I haven't read the Sun for 30 odd years and I've certainly never voted Tory!. I was at that same Leppings Lane end in 1984 for an FA Cup quarter final against Sheff Weds iand experienced crushing as we were herded into the pens like animals, it was an accident waiting to happen with the attitude of the Police towards the fans. Glad you have finally got justice, but it should've been many years ago.
It's why I think the force should be disbanded and renamed. You can't remove a culture of decades by cutting off the head each time they're found out..it's hydra. Similar but in different circumstances to the RUC. Total loss of confidence in the institution which then reinforces the siege mentality....even among decent officers and the pattern continues. I know a few long serving peelers that went from RUC to PSNI...while they hated the idea that it somehow "blamed every officer" for the other actions of some they realised it was necessary to regain some public trust. Obviously it wasn't the only change to the PSNI that helped. I think evidence shows it has worked to improve relations with the public. Disband SYP ...Bring in a hierarchy that has never served in it (or west midlands) ....unpalatable as it is ...like with the RUC...pay off anyone still there from that period with a pension (not any that face criminal proceedings obviously). It's not just Hillsborough...it's the miners debacle and Rotherham. It's just too many issues to say it's individual bad apples.
Oh and I forgot tipping the BBC off about raiding cliff richards house (whether he ends up guilty or not)...sounds familiar tactic doesn't it. And Just read they have officers up in court right now for using a police helicopter with thermal imaging cameras to perv on members of the public having sex....seriously it's done.
There was a helicopter flying over ours the other afternoon when I was in bed having a **** (I was on nights before anyone tries to suggest I waste away my days like some Salford wool).
Can't imagine there's a great amount of detail for them to get excited about from a TI camera. Have they not heard of the internet?
Did, sort of. Sorry for the levity, btw, on such a serious issue. I'm not trying to be all General Chat about this, it's just that the police and their defenders sometimes bring out the absurd in everything. Just too preposterous for logical discussion at times.
Yeah, me too. I'd answered before I realised which thread we were in. Won't do it again, apologies if anyone was offended.
