Here we go Again...
- Thread starter Wandering Yid
- Start date
-
Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
-
Have to say I agree with you there. Americans tend to be the masters of overlegislating, but we aren't quite to the point where it's against the law to use a term others deem un-pc. I don't even like the fact that referring to fascists and Nazis in certain ways can get you a jail term in Germany. I wish people wouldn't do that, but making it a crime destroys free speech, which every country needs.
I kinda like Mutant Brits, personally. Brings to mind people wandering through radioactive waste dumps till their eyes start to glow.
It seems that we've got an unlikely ally on this one. West Ham co-Chairman David Gold, who's father was Jewish, has spoken out on the issue.
Gold holds much the same view explaining that the black community often referred to each other by using the outlawed N word.
He said: "It's almost as if they are saying 'we can do that with each other' but nobody else had better do so.
"Yid" is an unpleasant word with unpleasant connotations but there's a difference between it being used by Spurs fans to describe each other and being called it by other fan groups and clubs. I think to call each other by the term is probably ok.
"To be honest, whilst I realise what the word is all about, it really doesn't offend me to hear Spurs fans calling each by the term."
Would've been very easy for him to keep quiet about it, especially as some of his club's fans won't appreciate it, as they're some of the worst for this kind of abuse.
Gold holds much the same view explaining that the black community often referred to each other by using the outlawed N word.
He said: "It's almost as if they are saying 'we can do that with each other' but nobody else had better do so.
"Yid" is an unpleasant word with unpleasant connotations but there's a difference between it being used by Spurs fans to describe each other and being called it by other fan groups and clubs. I think to call each other by the term is probably ok.
"To be honest, whilst I realise what the word is all about, it really doesn't offend me to hear Spurs fans calling each by the term."
Would've been very easy for him to keep quiet about it, especially as some of his club's fans won't appreciate it, as they're some of the worst for this kind of abuse.
Funny.Nobodies ever called me a Yid.They have called me a "bloody Spurs fanatic"!Is that racist!!!!!?
I find David Baddiel's perspective completely illogical and mind boggling. His articles totally miss the point of the true Anti-Semitism on the terraces, the hissing and the Nazi references and he has laid a public siege on Spurs labeling themselves the Yids.
And what Peter Herbert is doing, getting himself involved in something that has absolutely nothing to do with him, just for a bit of publicity, is plain obviously ego-centric.
Words evolve! Two words used in reference to homosexuals, one not so offensive (gay) and the other very offensive (f****t), had VERY different meanings barely a century ago! In the same way, the meaning of the word "Yid" has changed over time. It doesn't have racist or anti-Semitic connotations. What DOES have racist and anti-Semitic connotations is when they people are called "you f**king Yids".
In the same way, saying to someone "that black man" isn't racist, but saying "that f**king black man" can land that individual in VERY hot water.
This entire situation truly frustrates me because I believe that so many people miss the point on this debate.
This is coming from a religious, Orthodox Jew.
And what Peter Herbert is doing, getting himself involved in something that has absolutely nothing to do with him, just for a bit of publicity, is plain obviously ego-centric.
Words evolve! Two words used in reference to homosexuals, one not so offensive (gay) and the other very offensive (f****t), had VERY different meanings barely a century ago! In the same way, the meaning of the word "Yid" has changed over time. It doesn't have racist or anti-Semitic connotations. What DOES have racist and anti-Semitic connotations is when they people are called "you f**king Yids".
In the same way, saying to someone "that black man" isn't racist, but saying "that f**king black man" can land that individual in VERY hot water.
This entire situation truly frustrates me because I believe that so many people miss the point on this debate.
This is coming from a religious, Orthodox Jew.
The problem, Lotak, is that the last government introduced unnecessary laws which have created this minefield of political correctness surrounding race and religion.
Courts have always been able to distinguish between what is racist and what is not and if appropriate, treat the racist element as an aggravating feature of any offence. They didn't need silly laws which allowed any old crank to claim that they were offended by the use of certain words and to make everyday behaviour an issue of criminality.
The irony is that these crazy laws create racial and religious tensions. They cause divisions between groups of people. They make us afraid of engaging with others and speaking our mind. That end up in groups being isolated and treated as different. Then others resent these groups because they feel they are being treated differently.
Common sense and reason doesn't come into it.
Courts have always been able to distinguish between what is racist and what is not and if appropriate, treat the racist element as an aggravating feature of any offence. They didn't need silly laws which allowed any old crank to claim that they were offended by the use of certain words and to make everyday behaviour an issue of criminality.
The irony is that these crazy laws create racial and religious tensions. They cause divisions between groups of people. They make us afraid of engaging with others and speaking our mind. That end up in groups being isolated and treated as different. Then others resent these groups because they feel they are being treated differently.
Common sense and reason doesn't come into it.
I've made this point before and one of these days I'd like someone to put it to Herbert who says that jewish people on hearing us sing are victims...but I've yet to hear any official complaint to THFC from a 'victim'. He says just saying the Y word is enough, yet black rap singers can use the N word on CD's as it suits them, and amongst themselves...but that apparently is all fine and good. In that respect, choosing a CD to listen to is no different to choosing to go to a football match. Some might then say people outside the ground who overhear it haven't chose to listen to it, well I don't choose to overhear rap music with swearing bellowing out of every 'hot hatch' that drives by.
Do people actually listen(or understand) the lyrics to songs today.I thought they buy todays music(?) for the noise!!!!?
The great virtue of allowing speech is that you let the assholes provide anti-advertisements for repellent views. I was lucky enough to have parents who were anti-racists, but felt many around my age came around to being against racism from having to hear their parents spout racist garbage. When you legislate against it, you make people expressing banned sentiments sympathetic, to at least some extent, for being picked on.
It's also useful to wonder what sorts of people are behind this sort of legislation. The likeliest people I can think of are shameless demagogues trying to score cheap political points, because it's easier than figuring out how to do something that helps people.
https://twitter.com/Steeler_Yiddo/status/383963174405693440
So it looks like someone has actually being charged by the police for chanting Yiddo
So it looks like someone has actually being charged by the police for chanting Yiddo
You must log in or register to see images
It seems this happened at WHL at half time yesterday.
All legit as THST are getting involved.
This comes after the police definitively clarified that they would be focussing their efforts on genuine anti-semitism, not use of the Y word.
All legit as THST are getting involved.
This comes after the police definitively clarified that they would be focussing their efforts on genuine anti-semitism, not use of the Y word.
Tottenham Hotspur and West Ham United
supporters could be arrested for chanting
'Yid', Met warns
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...ld-be-arrested-for-chanting-Yid-Met-warns.htm
This is getting silly now, how is this going to be solved as the people creating a non-issue aren't going to stop until arrests are made or the club issue a statement asking supporters to stop the chants.
supporters could be arrested for chanting
'Yid', Met warns
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...ld-be-arrested-for-chanting-Yid-Met-warns.htm
This is getting silly now, how is this going to be solved as the people creating a non-issue aren't going to stop until arrests are made or the club issue a statement asking supporters to stop the chants.
...or the club issue a statement telling the likes of Herbert and Baddiel to **** off.
Has there been a single rabbi that says they find the chants offensive? Has any Jewish organisation said they find the chants offensive? Have any Jewish players said they found the chants offensive? No, what we have is somebody who is not Jewish telling Jewish people they should be offensive, and a Chelsea fan saying it's Spurs fans' fault that Chelsea fans make anti-Semitic chants.
Should we try to be extra offensive and wear Washington Redskins jerseys to home games? Same **** is happening with them, as white people are telling Native Americans to be offended by their name.
The last sentence in the Telegraph piece is whats important, 'proving intent to insult'.
If you were stood in the middle of a town centre and shouted the word '****', you could be arrested for foul language. Stand there and shout 'yid' nothing else, just that word...nothing they can do about it, public disorder for yelling at worst, you absolutely cannot be arrested for saying the word all by itself, its not a swear word, it has to be an insult directed at others. Pointing at an individual and shouting yid is context for arrest as I see it, or as part of a rant to insult.
If you were stood in the middle of a town centre and shouted the word '****', you could be arrested for foul language. Stand there and shout 'yid' nothing else, just that word...nothing they can do about it, public disorder for yelling at worst, you absolutely cannot be arrested for saying the word all by itself, its not a swear word, it has to be an insult directed at others. Pointing at an individual and shouting yid is context for arrest as I see it, or as part of a rant to insult.
Never mind the fact that "Yid" is just old school Jewish for identifying another speaker of the yiddish language.
I despair at our world sometimes I really do. Some people just need a slap round the face and told to wake to **** up. There are people in this world with real problems, and name calling is the very least of them. Let alone name calling of oneself by a group of people rallying to the cause of a group previously targeted (and often still are) by the fellow fans of the football team they support.
You couldn't make it up. Bet he's never been to WHL and heard the hissing noises his Chelsea mates make.
I read some of the reader comments and they seemed to be implying the author was inventing certain aspects, maybe he bottled it and removed the article but there are similar articles on the BBC and Sky, hopefully we will win this 'fight' as its such a pathetic non issue.