Grand Prix thread Heineken Grande Prêmio De São Paulo 2021

I know the majority want just to move on but this is a fundamental moment. Any decision, either way, is defining. If no review that does bring into question all the other penalties for pushing someone off track. Lewis had the corner till Max forced him off. Forget whether intentional. I am sure the FIA would rather not reopen this but they will have to be very clear why, if they don't. Picture Verstappen going for the overtake on Lewis and the reverse happening at this weekends race. If it is a No to reopening they have to give reason.
This is political, whether the fans want it or not.

 

Has there ever been a defining decision in F1? They'll give a verdict, then they'll contradict it within a couple of races.

 

I think this is the crux of it. During the race, Masi/The Stewards ducked the responsibility to make a ruling on the move, which in itself was a decision, but they cannot duck it again.

If that move is legal: Then they need to be very clear as to why, and what would need to be different for it to be over the line. If the move is allowed to stand without explanation/clarification, then my interpretation would be that if you're on the inside of a corner, with the driver outside of you level/ahead, then you have no obligation to brake early enough to make the corner, no obligation to remain on the circuit in the corner, and can run your opponent as wide as you like (perhaps as long as it's tarmac on the outside of the corner, given Austria??) and expect to be allowed to maintain the position. I think that's a fair interpretation unless evidence is provided that Verstappen locked up, had oversteer to correct, braked at an appropriate distance for corner entry, etc. I'd be interested to see a comparison to qualifying and the previous/next racing laps, because I can't believe that even when on the racing line, Verstappen braked that late and made the corner.

If that move is illegal: Then the penalty situation is a mess. It should probably be a 5 second penalty for Brazil, but that relegates Verstappen to third and it's fair enough to argue he'd have driven differently knowing it was coming. If they apply it to Qatar as a 3-place grid drop, that probably hands Mercedes a 1-2 finish, which would cost Verstappen even more points. It's also applying a sporting penalty to a different event, which is usually only the case when a driver can't be penalised in the race where the offence happened because he retires.

If I was Mercedes, you've got to use Bottas to test it, haven't you? At some point in the final 3 races he's going to end up on the inside of Verstappen, and he's got to run Verstappen beyond track limits and see what happens. It's going to be tarmac run-offs everywhere, so surely legal enough to defend it?


I imagine the FIA have gone through the rule book to find any way possible of throwing this appeal out on a technicality, it's a nightmare for them.

 

Because what ever they do looks bad, they're just trying to figure out which looks worse, and who to blame.

 

We are lucky we dont have these problems with VAR and referees in the Premier League

 

Three days later.....

So was was it offside then? I'm busting for a pee!

 

Always a bit risky pasting isolated quotes without seeing the whole interview, but from the BBC's article...

Qatar Grand Prix: Max Verstappen not expecting punishment after Lewis Hamilton incident
https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/59337771

 

Max made that statement before the hearing today. He is trying to sway opinion by doing so.

 

I assume they're checking every rule in the book to see if they can get away with giving a 3 second time penalty.

McLaren have also now thrown their hat in the rink with questions about why Norris was penalised in Austria despite him actually staying on the track himself, yet Max wasn't even looked at.

The longer they leave it the bigger the answer will have to be.

 

Max is 14 points ahead with 3 races left, possibly 2 if the Saudi's don't get it together, he knows that he can push Lewis anytime Lewis is behind him into a situation where the cars could be damaged and DNF, Lewis can't afford any contact and possibility of DNF, if the stewards let Max's actions in Brazil go it hands the initiative to Max.

 

"Verstappen: F1 action against Red Bull shows Mercedes' "true nature""

*sigh* Really Max?

Some people have such short memories.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/v...-red-bull-shows-mercedes-true-nature/6797827/

 

I think you've hit the nail on the head there. It has to be answered in order for people to know how they can race/push others. The FIA have really put them selves between a rock and a hard place with this one.

I don't think they want others doing what Max did, I think deep down they know it was wrong, but as you say they don't want to be seen back tracking now and giving a penalty after the event as all sorts of other variables get thrown in (like could Max have driven quicker etc).

 

I can understand the powers at be wanting Verstappen and Red Bull to win this year. Mercedes have cleaned up every year since 2014 with Hamilton also getting all but one in that time also, it does get repetitive.

You've now also got Hamilton and Vettel, with 11 championships between them, turning up in the middle east, Hungary and Russia etc with pride flags on their helmets, which I'm sure causes a degree of awkwardness between F1 and their hosts.

 

I know it's good for the sport to have different winners in both drivers and teams, but it's never sat well with me how success is rewarded with rules tightening to try and deny you further success. F1 for me has always been a sport where innovation should be rewarded and Merc have just done a much better job.

The rule changes next year should have been enough without meddling this year for me. But I want Lewis to win over Max, so maybe I'm biased. =X

 

Review denied:

 

He wasn't saying that after Silverstone! I can't stand the hypocrisy.

 

It's official, FIA want to protect the golden goose.

 

That’s the problem .

The powers that be have that power and have had it for years .

It doesn’t make it right and it makes me sick .

‘Now we have the lgbtbbcitv thrown in as well .

 

Get rid of the stupid big run off areas and drivers won’t take these “ Chances “

 

That's the last time we see anyone going for a move on the outside.
well done FIA, your short-sightedness is sooo good for the sport.

Need them for MotoGP.