many Blue square clubs and Rymans league clubs, such as my other Club,Sutton are run on shoestring budgets,and couldn't afford it
Harry 'Two Refs'
- Thread starter Ghoddle10
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Hi Totsfan, thanks for that info. That would have been my guess.
Obviously the authorities can say well the technology will only be, for example, the Prem or the the top division in every country, or European country, or whatever. But as I said earlier, drawing this line is liable to be difficult, and will represent a definite obstacle to high level technological innovation.
I guess the goal line technology we are expecting soon won't be available at Sunday League level, I wonder if it will be compulsory at say Ryman League level?
The need for more refs would be removed at a stroke if players were required to act in an honest and sportsmanlike way at all times and there were very heavy penalties to punish those who didn't.
I suggest that the laws should include a section like this (extracted from the rules of curling and amended appropriately):
"Footballers play to win, but never to hurt their opponents. A footballer never attempts to distract opponents, nor to foul them to prevent them from playing their best, and would prefer to lose rather than to win unfairly.
Footballers never knowingly break a rule of the game, nor disrespect any of its traditions. Should they become aware that this has been done inadvertently, they will be the first to divulge the breach."
This may be a dream but I don't see how any proper fan could argue against it. If the ref was unsure of anything all he would have to do was to ask the players to tell him honestly what happened.
I suggest that the laws should include a section like this (extracted from the rules of curling and amended appropriately):
"Footballers play to win, but never to hurt their opponents. A footballer never attempts to distract opponents, nor to foul them to prevent them from playing their best, and would prefer to lose rather than to win unfairly.
Footballers never knowingly break a rule of the game, nor disrespect any of its traditions. Should they become aware that this has been done inadvertently, they will be the first to divulge the breach."
This may be a dream but I don't see how any proper fan could argue against it. If the ref was unsure of anything all he would have to do was to ask the players to tell him honestly what happened.
Thats pretty much what i said on the 1st page. Snooker players call themselves up on fouls all the time. They want to win just as much as footballers.
Well, this technology for all angle doesn't sit with me at all, in rugby, video replay isn't available down to lower leagues, in tennis there's no video line call at my local Sport Centre either, its just a fact that the top of any game gets benefits, thats life!
Sorry - Spurfectionist - made the mistake of posting wthout reading the whole thread so disn't acknowledge your contribution.
I think the difference from snooker comes from the belief that has grown up in football that breaking the rules somehow isn't cheating beacuse the ref gives a free-kick and everything is then all right.
No worries, i don't want acknowledgement, was just saying that i agree. I said we need to "breed" the players to be like that. That is what snooker has already as you say. The only way to do that is to vilify the cheats. I liked what Fulham fans did to Suarez, but the FA needs to be in on it too.
The problem is that its not as clear cut in football sometimes. Eg, the modders pen vs stoke. Even if there was no actual contact (not saying there was or wasn't) the actions of the defender caused him to have to take evasive action which stopped the move.
The refs don't help, when was the last time you saw a penalty given if the player was fouled but tried to stay on his feet? I've seen players try to stay up and nothing gets given, so they have to go down.
Fair comments NSS, but it's FIFA, the FA/Prem, UEFA who will decide. Football is a way, way, bigger and more global game than sports like rugby or tennis, or indeed any other sport (not that it's a sport to me, but that's another debate
Therefore global politics are likely to be involved, European politics almost certainly will be involved, and domestic politics definitely will be involved.
That's life too
...so they don't have to install cameras and that's fine. Because football is such a massive game there are massive variations on how it's played. No-one argued against fourth officials or that little electric board they hold up cos Sunday league teams couldn't afford one. Sunday league teams play on pitches that barely deserve the name sometimes. The markings on the pitch will not be regulation quality for a Premier League game. The linesmen might be people attached to the clubs, there might not be corner flags, the nets might have holes in.
Football is already different at different levels. It's fine.
But if the TV cameras are already there it is insane that refs are not allowed to look at them.
You can't stifle the use of something merely because it can't yet (and perhaps never will) be used by everyone.
So the Ref asks Luka 'what happened there?' Luka says 'I tried to avoid his kick and lost my balance', or 'he caught me on the shin and I fell'. The Stoke player says 'I tried to withdraw my foot but caught him slightly' or 'I didn't touch him' . The ref then has all the info needed to decide.
He records what was said. Replays are used to check on truthfulness - evident mistruths cost a points deduction and/or a long ban. Simples!
Well Lenny, maybe the authorities aren't too keen on video replays and the like.
If it was simply a case of installing the equipment, the Prem could do it tomorrow, I'm sure. So why don't they?
There are many reasons I guess, and the 'universality issue' may be one of them.
All through the goal line technology debate, it seems that FIFA is calling the tune on its introduction or not. I suspect that would be case with advanced video us too of replays and the like.
A key aspect is surely, do the laws of the game need to be amended to bring in 'video refs' and the like. If they do, then FIFA holds the power, presumably.
In the meantime UEFA have introduced a brilliant innovation in extra goal line assistants for UEFA club competitions, presumably FIFA sanctioned. So there seems, to me, no good reason why the Prem shouldn't copy UEFA's lead, and bring them into our top division. It's a far better solution than Harry's two refs, it's proved it works in practice, so we should do it.
If some years down the line, the authorities want video refs in and the like, fine do that. But a practicable solution seems to be on hand now, and I'd like to see the Prem vote on it at least.
Hang on! You're both onto something here. Build polygraph equipment into the shirts then the ref can ask them questions as he's having a word. Then incorporate that electric shock story from the other day and automatically administer pain if they lie.
Behaviour can be changed by sanctions. I really think the very worst injustices would not have happened with this sort of system - if the ref in the France v Ireland match had asked Henry if he had handled the ball and the penalty for lying was loss of the game - he would have told the truth and football would have been the winner. I'm not really asking for players to call their own fouls - just to deal honestly with the ref.
That would suggest that a Spurs player dived and I simply refuse to believe that.
Sorry, wasn't very clear. The player went up to the ref and said "excuse me sir, do you think that was the right decision?". Angered Jol something chronic
Sorry, wasn't very clear. The player went up to the ref and said "excuse me sir, do you think that was the right decision?". Angered Jol something chronic
Oh I see. 1 player surrounded the ref. Wasn't Andy Reid was it?