you liked that clip of senna did you miggins , i take it you watched the you tube clip if it was on there , have a look at the opening lap of canada 93 , personally i enjoyed it more than the opening lap of donnington 93 but i thought donnington was better executed because of the conditions , you have to remember the 93 mclaren was a turkey for most of that season which is even more significant - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eut-9j3B_LQ
Was the 93 McLaren really that bad? I didn't watch the season so I can only go by statistics and things I've read - Senna achieved some good results with the car while Michael Andretti, sucks. The fact that rookie Hakkinen came into the season so late and looked reasonably competitive, especially in qualifying, implies that the car was quite good. Anyway, with my limited knowledge, that's how I see it. If I'm wrong, could someone who has watched that season please explain to me why they think the 93 McLaren was so bad?
I put it to see if it would get another negative response, I think there are certain drivers that certain members will never admit to have having performed well.
I can admit that Hamilton does perform well on occasions - but the video you posted isn't the best example of Hamilton doing a good job. I wouldn't have said anything if you'd posted this for example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqFLc5HJ14U
the 93 McLaren had the customer ford engine, the factory team was Benetton (I think) the good results were because of the driver, to be able to challenge for the title in a fairly uncompetitve car is why he's rated so highly, unlike other pretenders who've only won in a competitve car.
The 93 McLaren was a competitive machine in the hands of Senna and Hakkinen. As you say it was just Andretti that did badly, but i think his quali was quite reasonable, he just struggled to get around the first lap without ending in the gravel! It was certainly no Williams-Renault, but it was the 2nd best car on the grid in 93.
the 1993 mclaren mp4/8 was an ill handling underpowered dog from the word go forza , so much so that senna tested the thing at silverstone in january 93 and then refused to test it again during the season , so disenchanted was he with the car he also insisted on a race by race contract for 93 , the main problems were the underpowered ford custormer engine , and the active suspension that never worked properly until the third race from the end of the season ( portugal ) , senna and andretti both complained about the balance and the handling all season long which was caused by the active suspension that mclaren never got right until race 14 / portugal - ironically race 14 was the race that mika hakk took over the drive from andretti , at that race with the revised active suspension the mclaren finally became something of a match for the benetton if not the williams , senna would of won easily but retired from portugal with a blown engine , in the final two races with the revised active suspension senna finally had a car that handled and won the last two races with ease --
The Ferrari 312 T5 was an ill handling underpowered dog Any Ligier from 1987 onwards was an ill handling underpowred dog The McLaren mp4/9 was an ill handling underpowered dog The McLaren mp4/8 won 2 out of the first 3 races that season. An ill handling underpowerd dog would not do that no matter who was driving it. A sense of perspective is required martial if you don't wish to bring your own thread to a farcical conclusion by ignoring the very rules you set out at the start to avoid this kind of bias.
nothing wrong with my sense of perspective saint -- have you forgotten that the two race races you mentioned were wet and as we both know the wet can be a great equaliser , especially when there was probally the greatest rain master ever in the cockpit of the mp4/8 for the 2 races --
Indeed the rain is a leveller and Senna made good use of that to negate the Williams usual dry dominance, but as both McLaren's had already qualified in the top 6, even with the inept Andretti, it doesn't hold true your position that the McLaren was a dog.
take it you forgot and have just checked those 2 races were actually wet -( only joking just screwing with you , but i suspect you did check ) what else do you call a car with an underpowered ford engine and suspension that never worked properly until race 14 , you could hardly call a machine like that competitive could you , i called it a dog because thats exactly what it was compared to the williams , i would be surprised if it was even a match for the ferrari until they got the active suspension correct at portugal which then transformed the car --
I remember Brazil as Prost spun then someone else came along and chopped off his nose! You want to watch 1993 Portugal again. I reckon they nicked Ferrari's suspension if you remember what happened to Berger when he came out of the pits Crakcing start and first few laps from Alesi though.
yeh i remember it - alesi didnt get much right during his career but he got his start right that day - could"nt believe it when senna"s V8 went pop as those things were pretty much bullet proof at the time , bit of a nothing race after that as prost was only after enough points to tie up the title -
Off on a tangent a bit, wasn't if after that race Senna did his 'lead shoes' speech about Prost? Need to try and find the exact wording but it was a dig about Prost but made for interesting listening. I was actually disappointed it didn't make it into the Senna movie.
i believe that was a year earlier at portugal 92 when senna called prost a coward , i can remember mansell and berger being there at the time that senna said it ---
