Goal celebrations

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lamby

lamby

Needs a cold shower
Oct 3, 2011
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Mitcham, Surrey
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21829682#

Just spotted this on the Beeb. This player has been banned from the national team for life for giving what looks like a Nazi salute. Question is was this fair?

Players aren't the brightest as we all know and in my view it's quite possible he didn't really understand the meaning of what he did. If that is the case is a life ban an over reaction? By all means punish him but does this punishment fit the crime?

How would we all react if a Saints player did something like this?

Thoughts
 
You would've thought that punishments would be weighed up against Joey Barton first and then given out proportionately to said gobshite and serial offensive gesturer/ commenter!!!

Ashley Cole and his Mum have said far more offensive things online than a foolish player not thinking on the spur of the moment. At least you have the time while you think, type then click online.

Should be a reprimand and ticking off really.
 
fran-MLs little camera:4454827 said:
I would hope a Saints player wouldn't be that daft...none of them would be unaware of the significance.
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They would get ze horses head!
 
Daft thing to do but a ridiculous punishment, as Imps said, completely spur of the moment thing he did while experiencing the pure adrenaline and joy of scoring a goal.
 
I find it impossible to believe a Greek wouldn't know the meaning of the gesture, considering the current prominence of the fascist Golden Dawn party in Greece.

That might also explain the punishment.
 
Fair point PTF but if you believe the coaches he knows nothing about politics. Personally I just think to ban him for life is a bit over the top.
 
Even if he did know what he is doing, which I very much doubt, by banning him they are simply not allowing freedom of expression which is exactly what the Nazis themselves did. Surely, the war was fought so that people could make such expressions even if they are hateful?

I know this is a massively complex debate in that we all know of topics and phrases that are banned and most of us would agree, correctly; eg racist and homophobic words. In addition, one can't go round stirring up hatred in others.

There was a good debate on fascism on another thread, it is a valid political doctrine, Joe S wrote a good summary as I recall. If the person in charge was not corrupted by the power, it could even be a good thing in the right circumstances.

Anyway, I doubt this player had any of those thoughts in his head. The fact that he pulled his shirt off shows that he is something of an idiot.
 
Lff said:
Even if he did know what he is doing, which I very much doubt, by banning him they are simply not allowing freedom of expression which is exactly what the Nazis themselves did. Surely, the war was fought so that people could make such expressions even if they are hateful?
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Yes, and he is free to make such an expression, just as the Greek FA is free to ban him for it. Freedom of expression does not mean freedom from the consequences of your expression.
 
True, but that kind of reinforces my point. Plus, if he did mean it and realise what it represented then these actions are just giving it and him unnecessary worldwide coverage and attention.
 
Lff said:
True, but that kind of reinforces my point. Plus, if he did mean it and realise what it represented then these actions are just giving it and him unnecessary worldwide coverage and attention.
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Isn't that a good thing? In that case no-one else can claim to be ignorant of the significance of the gesture.
 
Maybe, I don't really know.

What I do know is that throughout time people pick and choose which bits of history is relevant to them and disregard others. The salute and the swastika both have other meanings in other cultures.

Anyway, I am still of the opinion that the guy is probably guilty of being either ignorant or stupid rather than anything else.
 
The salute is certainly not a purely Nazi style of salute and teh swastika is a good luck symbol. However, in recent history they are associated with the Nazis ad are offensive to most people. Without evidence to the contrary, I'm prepared to think that is probably just the ignorance of youth.
 
Lff said:
True, but that kind of reinforces my point. Plus, if he did mean it and realise what it represented then these actions are just giving it and him unnecessary worldwide coverage and attention.
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Freedom of expression does carry a responsibility though and that is not to offend using that expression. People fought a war against that kind of expressionism. People in the Greek islands in particular have good reason to hate that kind of Salute and the reasoning behind it.
Having said that I find the punishment a bit harsh just the same. Surely he will appeal it?
 
rj__02 said:
What’s there to say. If someone does it they should be banned end of story.
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Anyone who says "end of....." (like their opinion is the only one that counts) should be banned. End of. Oops, thats me gone then.
 
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