Glorious failure

Football runs is cycles (or used to perhaps) so I hope to see Spurs win the league. It's my club, since I was old enough to care. To crave a bit of success is not to crave any other clubs success or their style of play. I want it for Tottenham... Its gonna take a big personality however, be that players or manager, who would come in / step up, give us that spark and more importantly stick around to see us achieve. I hope the money involved with city and Chelsea don't ruin ambition but I see those two clubs fighting out the major honours for the foreseeable. That said, new stadium is coming and we have a team who competes. Futures good!

Only took me 4 years to write something... Thanks for indulging.
 
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littleDinosaurLuke said:
All fans want to see their teams play attacking football and win. It's great if you can do both - and it's expected at clubs like Real Madrid and Utd because of their history and traditions and the importance to their popularity around the globe. There have certainly been times in the recent past where Real Madrid's implacable commitment to recruiting exciting attacking players has cost them trophies because it's been done at the expense of the team being defensively sound. At the other end of the scale, Chelsea are prepared to win ugly because it's the way their manager knows how to win.

Spurs have traditionally had an attacking philosophy because it was successful in the early '50s and '60s, but at times since, you could say it has been costly in terms of winning trophies. The team of the mid to late '80s might have won the title, but probably played with too much emphasis on attacking flair.

But things have changed in the modern era. A more definite hierarchy of clubs has developed based on wealth and it is ever more important to get the results required to maintain or gradually improve your place in that hierarchy. We know how important a top four place is because of the financial rewards attached. This is particularly so for clubs who have only an outside chance of winning the title. So most managers are pragmatists now. Redknapp played an exciting style of football because it suited the strengths of his side when Bale and Modric, in particular, blossomed. Pochettino doesn't have players of that calibre at his disposal and would take a massive risk if he tried to adopt the same style and saw his side exposed defensively. We've seen how much criticism Wenger gets for stubbornly playing his way when his team gets found out season after season and falls short in the PL. Arsenal are the true glorious failures of the PL at present.
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That's a good post, Luke, as usual, but you and others almost seem to be talking about Pochettino as the essence of a dour and conservative coach, when his team last year played with no DM, and sure enough scored a lot of goals and shipped them in buckets.

gooner4ever said:
Actually Spurs have always strived to play football the right way (like Arsenal do) and that is to be admired, if you get some consistency in your choice of manager and transfer policy then the trophies should follow,
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No doubt the failure to find (and/or stick with) the right manager has been our downfall lately. It's tended to cancel out a lot of good things going on with the Academy, finances in general, and now with the new stadium. We'll have to see if Pochettino can be successful enough to get us a little continuity. That might make a big difference.
 
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Shark said:
Football runs is cycles (or used to perhaps) so I hope to see Spurs win the league. It's my club, since I was old enough to care. To crave a bit of success is not to crave any other clubs success or their style of play. I want it for Tottenham... Its gonna take a big personality however, be that players or manager, who would come in / step up, give us that spark and more importantly stick around to see us achieve. I hope the money involved with city and Chelsea don't ruin ambition but I see those two clubs fighting out the major honours for the foreseeable. That said, new stadium is coming and we have a team who competes. Futures good!

Only took me 4 years to write something... Thanks for indulging.
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By the way shark, I liked your post for getting involved and creating a good debate, so I'll ignore the comments about the future being good under Pochettino :)
 
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Boss said:
By the way shark, I liked your post for getting involved and creating a good debate, so I'll ignore the comments about the future being good under Pochettino :)
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Ah c'mon... Harry said he liked him ;-)

Perhaps I should have said futures coming...
 
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Shark said:
Ah c'mon... Harry said he liked him ;-)

Perhaps I should have said futures coming...
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Indeed he does, yet Redknapp is a polite experienced manager that understands how demanding the spurs job is, not to mention working for Levy.

Once this season is finished, four seasons since Redknapp managed the club, still no champions league, further away from top four then any point since Redknapp departed.

The excuse is that Redknapp never planned for the future but if he had planned ahead then the immediate targets would have failed so it was a case of do you want top four or do you want to sit around admiring young players that wouldn't have that experience and quality to deliver top four?

Now we see the other plan, long term planning which isn't taking us to the champions league, rather it will bring through youth and once pochettino is sacked, an experienced manager will come in and fix the issues.
 
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A question for you Boss. What would Pochettino have to achieve for you to accept him as a good manager for our club?Would two Champions League places in four years convince you?
 
paultheplug said:
A question for you Boss. What would Pochettino have to achieve for you to accept him as a good manager for our club?Would two Champions League places in four years convince you?
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I can't see him changing my opinion, but if this season Kane continues his form and the team plays attractive football, meaning we look like an actual cohesive team and Kane is there to finish off the good work then I would have to accept Pochettino is improving.

I disliked AVB, but at times I had to praise him for the defensive work and how he initially used Lennon/Defoe, so I'm happy to hold my hands up if Pochettino improves and shows he can close the gap to the top four.

But as for finishing top four, I don't believe he has that in him and we need an experienced manager in charge.
 
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We can only dream of the Bits and Pieces Cup. We had to settle for the third place trophy at the Audi Cup, a kind of "Did not finish DFL, but not by much" award, considering there were four teams involved.
 
redwhiteandermblue said:
That's a good post, Luke, as usual, but you and others almost seem to be talking about Pochettino as the essence of a dour and conservative coach, when his team last year played with no DM, and sure enough scored a lot of goals and shipped them in buckets.
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Cheers RWAEB <ok>
I don't know about dour and conservative, but he's certainly pragmatic. He doesn't have the pace and flair Redknapp had in his team so he's looked to play a different style of high-pressing and possession. Of course it's not as thrilling as seeing players counterattack at speed. With a lone striker and a packed midfield, it can be turgid, but he's not alone in seeing the first priority as being hard to beat. To play a high tempo, fast paced game you need a midfield playmaker who can ping 30-40 yard passes and jet-heeled forwards who can make the most of them. Spurs could do it with Modric and Bale, just like Utd could with Scholes, Giggs, Ronaldo etc. These players are hard to find. If you try to play this style with lesser players, you repeatedly give the ball away and put pressure on your defence with half your team upfield.
 
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I continue to have respect for your opinions and to believe in this case you
littleDinosaurLuke said:
Cheers RWAEB <ok>
I doubt know about dour and conservative, but he's certainly pragmatic. He doesn't have the pace and flair Redknapp had in his team so he's looked to play a different style of high-pressing and possession. Of course it's not as thrilling as seeing players counterattack at speed. With a lone striker and a packed midfield, it can be turgid, but he's not alone in seeing the first priority as being hard to beat. To play a high tempo, fast paced game you need a midfield playmaker who can ping 30-40 yard passes and jet-heeled forwards who can make the most of them. Spurs could do it with Modric and Bale, just like Utd could with Scholes, Giggs, Ronaldo etc. These players are hard to find. If you try to play this style with lesser players, you repeatedly give the ball away and put pressure on your defence with half your team upfield.
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I don’t disagree entirely. Counterattacking football was the most exciting way we have played recently.

But: Pochettino’s teams played exciting and attractive football at Southampton. Spurs played exciting and high scoring football last year, even if the quality was all over the shop. Three or five of the best PL games all year involved Spurs.

It seems to me that the one dull game we played this year, which we had every reason to be conservative in, has come to instantly define Pochettino’s style for some, rather than the fifty we played last year, or all the games he played in Southampton the year before that.

<cheers> Cheers to you as well, Luke. I’m vaguely considering a signature:

"2% as likable as LDL."
 
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I’m off to throw myself off the Trump tower for the good of humanity.

Right after I do something about that hair.

No need to thank me. Just don’t walk in front of the Trump Tower for the next few minutes. I’m a bit of a load.
 
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