I think Gerrard is still am important player for us,but could do with a rest as we have used him too much this season already. Saturday I would like to see the following lineup. GK: Mignolet CB: Sakho CB: Agger CB: Toure RWB: Johnson LWB: Enrique/Cissoko CM: Lucas CM: Henderson ACM: Coutinho ST: Suarez ST: Sturridge IMO our best starting eleven at the moment and a match for anyone. Wouldnt mind seeing Allen get some game time aswell as I think he needs it.
RE: Lucas... I think its a few things: - I think BR likes his teams to hold shape when defending, he doesn't like his midfielders to track runners into the box and he doesn't like his CB's stepping forward either. This leaves a gap between midfield and defence which ultimately makes Lucas look bad as we all believe he should be in there. - I think Lucas has not got back to the level he was at before injury. He is still a good player but I despite being a big fan of his, I had doubts prior to his injury about his credentials for a top side (by which, I mean regular CL competitors) - His mrs has just had a baby so he will be slightly distracted ATM. - He isn't getting as much support from Gerrard when it comes to defensive duties as he should be IMO - getting used to the new "three CB's" system. There is no way I want to see Lucas moved on, he is a very good player to have at the club because he has proved he has the right mentality, the right attitude and that he is willing to fight for the cause. However, I do think its time to look at improving the central midfield. I have no doubt whatsoever that should there be a choice between Gerrard and X, Y or Z, the captain will prevail. IMO, that is wrong because it is a decision based on two things; a armband and sentiment. I don't care if you are Diego Maradona, Johan Cruyff and Franz Beckenbauer rolled into one, you need to earn your place in the team!
I think he's been at a good level for most of the season with a few stand out poor performances that weren't only him being awful. I think he is seriously seriously limited by playing beside Lucas. He just can't do it! He's not that defensive and gets caught a few metres away from the opposition because his instinct is to run forward. Lucas needs to be alone in the pivot, Gerrard and Henderson need to share the centre of the pitch, and Coutinho needs to play ahead of them to proved the service to SAS (otherwise the midfield splits into a defensive Gerrard and an offensive Hendo). He can do the job well for those 60 minutes, then replace him with Allen or Alberto later on depending on what the game needs. A few weeks ago we were laughing at how good he was and the form he was in. Now he's past it according to some of you. Saturday was an awful performance but we have a run of winnable fixtures coming up. If we smarten up, concentrate and the players do their jobs we can go on another decent run.
Assuming everyone is fighting fir and in form, and going by what you just said: Migs Johnson CB - CB - Enrique Gerrard - CM - CM Coutinho Sturridge - Suarez ...that's the line-up (or there abouts depending on system).
Yes. I just don't think we have the right remaining players to do it. Moses Allen Lucas Alberto Henderson Sterling I think there's plenty there to beat the 'lower' teams but when I pick a Gerrard & 2 of these I can't see it matching any of last year's top 4 or 5. Or at least both contributing enough goals and not conceding. And honestly this isn't in response to the Arsenal game, I've thought it so far this season. I have happily accepted the points but there's been some of those games that if we repeated the poor spell in each we'd have just as easily have lost it. Hell this is what BR is for,figuring the bloody thing out!
In the first half at The Emirates we were totally overrun in midfield. So who's fault was that? Well it's not as if Arsenal played some weird strategy. We knew exactly how they would set up and which players would adopt which roles. Yet we adopted a midfield startegy in which we planned to play on the counter yet rely on 2 central midfielders to face 3/4 attacking midfielders and then ask one of those central midfielders to take responsibility for creating our attacks. So I'll ask the question again. Who's fault is that? Well if you think that Lucas and Gerrard are to blame then I'll not waste my breath!
No one is blaming Lucas or Gerrard. The decision to play the way we did was obviously BR's however, if he is insisting on us playing this way then the Gerrard and Lucas combination is not the answer. Make of that what you will
January is our time to show that we mean business by improving our midfield. I would rather go back to a 4-3-3 and have Suarez out wide but drifting in because he does that anyway and is hard to pick up whilst doing so, Moses on the other side to offer some width. The three in midfield I'd set up more like the Barca way so rather than Rodgers' controller and two intermediary midfielders or Rafa's two holding and one advanced, we'd have one controller (I hate that term), one intermediary and one advanced. Lucas, new CM ahead of him and Coutinho as the advanced. I think Lucas is happier with 2 CBs behind him and 2 midfielders ahead of him where he sits in the hole and cleans up always with passing options open. Our defense are more comfortable as a 4 with knowing who to pick up, when to step up and when to cover runs. I'd go back to Agger and Toure, with Sakho replacing Agger against 'weaker' teams. Nothing against him or Skrtel, but they have a nice balance for a back pairing. The new CM needs to be composed and creative enough that Suarez and Coutinho don't need to drop so deep all the time to get an attack started but have the energy to support both the attack and defense as needed. I'd be looking at the likes of Banega if you wanted a more experienced midfielder or a young, hugely gifted player like Classie or Maher. Failing that, we've been linked with Pastore who could turn up trumps at a higher gamble but he's an advanced midfielder so something would have to give to get him and Coutinho in the same team. That leaves us with Gerrard as an impact sub/big game player, Henderson for games like Arsenal where we'd be more pressured in midfield and Alberto to rotate with Coutinho and the other midfielder as backup. Allen for the scrapheap. One midfielder signing in January changes our whole shape.
I've already made my points. I like the formation that Sky suggested earlier. I do accept that we should use Allen and Alberto as replacements for Gerrard. I totally accept that Lucas plays better as a solo with 2 players in front of him. Finally, I too would like us to make a major midfield purchase in January - and it will be the most risky purchase that we have made for almost a decade!
Agreed. We don't need him next to Lucas, FFS why play 2 DM's he should be alongside Hendo further up the pitch, with Hendo using his energy to track back if needed. See my team in the 'Do we know our best team yet?' thread I personally don't get all this Gerrard bashing, he's been excellent in most games this season, yeah he had a bad game on Saturday. But He's got more than enough professionalism to forget about that and push on.
I think most know my opinion on Gerrard so I'll save my breath ... oh f*ck it, I can't keep quiet! Personally, I think Rodgers has abandoned his philosophy and beliefs to accommodate Gerrard. In some ways, I don't blame him because it's not as if we're blessed with midfielders so he needs to get the best out of his current resources. However, if Rodgers wants to implement his fast pressing, quick moving, passing game - then Gerrard is not the man. That's not a criticism of Gerrard, it's just a limitation of his current game - his strengths lie elsewhere as we have seen throughout his career. As others have mentioned, give him 30 mins to give us an explosive cameo. Get 30 mins of high intensity rather than 90 mins of restraint. I feel sorry for Lucas - as a single DM, in the right system, he is very good. When we actually dominate a game and control the midfield, he provides excellent cover for the defence. The problem is now he is covering Gerrard which drags him out of position. That's not to say that Lucas's poor performance are solely down to Gerrard. Lucas has been poor, losing concentration, not winning many tackles etc etc. As a pair, it's the worst central midfield this club has had in recent times. In pretty much every game this season, we have lost control for periods in a match (including against West Brom). Give Lucas and Gerrard time and space, then we will hurt you. Unfortunately, decent teams won't give you time and space and we've seen time again that we lack the bite and energy in midfield to compete. And against a top class midfield, we were embarrassed and truly puts it into perspective of how important the midfield is and how far away we are from competing at the highest level. Arsenal do not have a top class defence or keeper - but their midfield is so good that the defence is rarely exposed. Surely that is indicative of the importance of a strong central midfield. You only have to look Suarez's expression at the lack of pressing from the players behind him. Also, we have 3 players in our midfield (Gerrard, Lucas, Henderson) who can't beat a man - e.g. look at the way Arteta, Ramsey, Coutinho etc who are able to pick the ball up deep, drop the shoulder and get away from a man thus creating more space and opportunities. We have none of that in our midfield bar Coutinho. Rodgers placed a lot of trust in these players plus Allen - now he realises it needs strengthening. Not a problem - when Rodgers first came in, he needed to improve the attack and defence first. He's done over the past 2 windows. Rome wasn't built in a day. Unfortunately, we have to put up with this until January .
I totally agree with Danilo (and Dave/Sky/Gonz etc). This IMO isn't about the players it's about the formation. 3 centre backs and two deep sitting midfielders isn't helping either Gerrard or Lucas at the moment. As with our midfield early last season neither player knows his role yet. As with last season they are having to adjust to a different style which in all honesty suits neither. I am amazed to still read the "Gerrard/Lucas aren't trying/arent mobile enough arguments again" when it's obvious this is how the manager is asking them to play. There hasn't been a great deal of energy from those two all season. If Rodgers wanted them to play differently then why do they look exactly the same ten games into the season? For me this current system is flawed and way too easy to combat certainly by the top teams.
Yet United who had a pretty average, pedestrian midfield won the league last year. Why? Well firstly it was because they had class up front (as we have) but more importantly a formation that allowed Carrick to play at his best. Also I wouldn't take too much notice of Suarez's expressions. He was as guilty as anyone on Saturday. He wasted chances and Sturridge had a shocker too. Bear in mind how Arsenal held the ball up up front compared to us. This doubled the pressure on our midfielders to perform and win the ball back when they should have been going forward.
I've been saying this about gerrard for 18months. his legs are gone and what e does is play for about 20mins in the first half then rests, you might get 10mins in the second before he rests then suddenly with 5 mins left there he is running about. its not just sitting.. mentally he switches off too. that last 5 is usually no good as the game is won or lost. 60mins? it could get to the point where 30mins as a sub is more realistic before long! As for Utd? the league last year was dire so they picked up points simply by playing get it to RVP. they conceeded lots of goals but just played 4 up and scored more. in the end that's an issue isn't it? they got away with murder last year as far as i am concerned. yet they'd tell you it was pure luck that a bad draw put them out of the CL that they were sure to win... if they'd come across either german side the barca cricket scores would have been thier lot. On the bright side this year city and cheslea are a little better but not by much so its wide open now they are not able to pull the goals out to win hose games... stoke should be ashamed letting them back in it.
For me he hasn't been at his best but he has still been our best central midfielder this season. In some games he has looked a bit lost though, I think a decision needs to be made whether he is going to break into the box or if he is going to sit and break up play because to me he has looked like he isnt sure what he is supposed to be doing. I think its time for him to sit back and let others get forward play him with henderson and coutinho either side breaking forwards. We dont really need 2 to sit
I hate that phrase "his legs have gone". He's 33 not 63. If Rodgers said to Gerrard to loon about like he used to then he'd do it. Would it help us? Maybe but it's obvious this is the way Rodgers wants him (and Lucas) to play. I think he's right to do it that way because it'll keep them fresher towards the back end of the season. However he is playing Gerrard too deep (IMO). Play him further up and let Hendo do the donkey work around him and then Lucas can sit behind more centrally mopping up (his best position too).
Everyone (including the player himself) can see that Gerrard is no longer the player that he was in his prime. The years have caught up with him & it's now a matter of how & when he is best utilised. He was best known for dragging you forwards, leading the charge & both scoring & creating goals. His legs simply won't allow him to chase back effectively when dispossessed high up the pitch, any more, so if he pushes forwards, you run that risk. In a DM position, he's lost that split second of reaction time imo, often gets caught flat footed & is therefore often easily passed these days. Can he still deliver a great dead ball or take a good freekick? yes of course he can, but his days of bossing a top flight midfield are gone. He's 34 this season, so it should hardly come as a shock like. I remember watching Tim Cahill wane at an alarming rate in his last season at Goodison & he was only 32 at the time. It happens to all of 'em & Gerrard is no exception.
Tobes you right in what you say with one major exception. Cahill never was in any way shape or form on anywhere near the same high level as Gerrard. It is evident that he cannot physically cope with the joint role of DM and being the deep lying creative player. If we are to maximise his skills then we really do need create a Pirlo type role for him.
