Gerrard

[Rubbersoul]

Last year he had a fantastic season, with most of us saying he should be fased out for youth, he kept his position and played great.

This year he's another year older, and with Henerson, Lucas, Allen, Coutinho and possible Henri all in line to play in the midfield, should we look into phasing him out or keep it like last season?

Personally believe he should play the big games, home or away. But games against the middle teams at home he should be dropped, we need our youth to come in eventually as Gerrard isn't getting any younger.

I felt it was a mistake playing him every game of last season, but that's my opinion.

What you think?

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

He didn't play every game last year, he missed the last few through injury


Seriously though, I think he should be picked like any other player; if he is playing well and deserves his place then play him but BR needs to be conscious of what fixtures we have coming up, something I'd expect him to do with every player in the squad.

 

[luvgonzo]

He should play every game imo, he's our Pirlo. We need that class on the pitch. He's worked for us over the years now it's other players turn to do the donkey work.

 

[InBiscanWeTrust]

He didn't play every game last year, he missed the last few through injury


Seriously though, I think he should be picked like any other player; if he is playing well and deserves his place then play him but BR needs to be conscious of what fixtures we have coming up, something I'd expect him to do with every player in the squad.

Agree with that. Shouldn't be guaranteed a game just because of who he is, but shouldn't be dropped just because of his age. If his fitness & form is good then he plays. if either dip, then you can start leaving him out.

 

[Rubbersoul]

But start of the year he did deserve to be dropped and never was.

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

But start of the year he did deserve to be dropped and never was.

I agree as I thought the same but stats suggested otherwise

 

[Klopp's Mannschaft]

But start of the year he did deserve to be dropped and never was.

Nonsense.

I said at the time and I'll keep saying it, there was nothing wrong with his early season performances. People complained about him losing possession and giving the ball away cheaply with adventurous passing. This was coincidently the time when most people were creaming themselves over Joe '96% passing' Allen and his middle of our half ball retention. It was Gerrard's passing which, although never worked out all the time, opened up the pitch and started off the majority of our attacks, even if not directly getting an assist/goal from it. A team of Allens produces nothing. A team with a Gerrard will always be a danger to the opposition - which he was.

He was our standout midfielder from the go.

 

[luvgonzo]

But start of the year he did deserve to be dropped and never was.

I agree as I thought the same but stats suggested otherwise

I thought he played well from the start.

 

[InBiscanWeTrust]

But start of the year he did deserve to be dropped and never was.

Problem was who would you have replaced him with? Lucas was out, Henderson wasn't really in any kind of form (although guess could say wasn't given a chance), Shelvey isn't good enough personally. He was the only midfielder that offered any kind of attacking threat, despite being off form.

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

Nonsense.

I said at the time and I'll keep saying it, there was nothing wrong with his early season performances. People complained about him losing possession and giving the ball away cheaply with adventurous passing. This was coincidently the time when most people were creaming themselves over Joe '96% passing' Allen and his middle of our half ball retention. It was Gerrard's passing which, although never worked out all the time, opened up the pitch and started off the majority of our attacks, even if not directly getting an assist/goal from it. A team of Allens produces nothing. A team with a Gerrard will always be a danger to the opposition - which he was.

He was our standout midfielder from the go.

I thought he played well from the start.

TBH, I was saying it after seeing how poor he'd been for the last couple of season (10-11 & 11-12). I backtracked last season fairly early on

 

[The artist JerryChristmas]

See I'd play him even if his form dips. Why? Because his form will return. There's a good few years left in his legs yet, he can still do things no other player at the club (and most in the league) can't do, he's still our only true big game player (if Suarez goes) and having his name on the teamsheet not only boosts our own players but I guarantee 100% of our opposition get a lift if he's not starting.

He might not be as influencial as he once was but on top form he's still the best around by a distance and I'm not sure why some Reds seem so keen on him being pensioned off.
He played pretty much the full season last year and just got better the more he played.

Just enjoy him while he's still playing lads because once he retires I guarantee we'll all miss watching him in a Red shirt

 

[The artist JerryChristmas]

Nonsense.

I said at the time and I'll keep saying it, there was nothing wrong with his early season performances. People complained about him losing possession and giving the ball away cheaply with adventurous passing. This was coincidently the time when most people were creaming themselves over Joe '96% passing' Allen and his middle of our half ball retention. It was Gerrard's passing which, although never worked out all the time, opened up the pitch and started off the majority of our attacks, even if not directly getting an assist/goal from it. A team of Allens produces nothing. A team with a Gerrard will always be a danger to the opposition - which he was.

He was our standout midfielder from the go.

In a nutshell

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

See I'd play him even if his form dips. Why? Because his form will return. There's a good few years left in his legs yet, he can still do things no other player at the club (and most in the league) can't do, he's still our only true big game player (if Suarez goes) and having his name on the teamsheet not only boosts our own players but I guarantee 100% of our opposition get a lift if he's not starting.

He might not be as influencial as he once was but on top form he's still the best around by a distance and I'm not sure why some Reds seem so keen on him being pensioned off.
He played pretty much the full season last year and just got better the more he played.

Just enjoy him while he's still playing lads because once he retires I guarantee we'll all miss watching him in a Red shirt

It can have an alternative effect too though; players can look to him to pull the strings. If Stevie is missing then others HAVE to step up and be counted.

I agree about the opposition but I also think Gerrard is one of the biggest culprits for BR's 'ball back in seven seconds' thing not working.

 

[The artist JerryChristmas]

It can have an alternative effect too though; players can look to him to pull the strings. If Stevie is missing then others HAVE to step up and be counted.

I agree about the opposition but I also think Gerrard is one of the biggest culprits for BR's 'ball back in seven seconds' thing not working.

BRs ball back in 7 seconds thing is bollox though mate. Yes we want a pressing game...hence why playing Allen next to Gerrard makes as much sense as letting a woman run the country. Play Hendo and he'll do a massive amount of running and knows how to slow down opposition players too.

As for others expecting Gerrard to do all the work well that's a symptom of us surrounding him too often with ****e players who aren't fit to lace his boots. Put decent players like Alonso, Masch, Lucas with him and Gerrard doesn't have to do it all because his partners know they are good enough to do it too.

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

BRs ball back in 7 seconds thing is bollox though mate. Yes we want a pressing game...hence why playing Allen next to Gerrard makes as much sense as letting a woman run the country. Play Hendo and he'll do a massive amount of running and knows how to slow down opposition players too.

As for others expecting Gerrard to do all the work well that's a symptom of us surrounding him too often with ****e players who aren't fit to lace his boots. Put decent players like Alonso, Masch, Lucas with him and Gerrard doesn't have to do it all because his partners know they are good enough to do it too.

I can't argue with much of that but I will point out that when we had Alonso and Mascherano in the side, the team performed better without Stevie (and Torres).

I personally don't think the seven seconds thing is bollox, Barca do it so it is possible but I don't think we are in a position (quality wise) to do it. You are only as good as your weakest link and IMO, Gerrard is that weakest link in this (seven seconds thing) aspect.

 

[The artist JerryChristmas]

I can't argue with much of that but I will point out that when we had Alonso and Mascherano in the side, the team performed better without Stevie (and Torres).

I personally don't think the seven seconds thing is bollox, Barca do it so it is possible but I don't think we are in a position (quality wise) to do it. You are only as good as your weakest link and IMO, Gerrard is that weakest link in this (seven seconds thing) aspect.

Barca don't win it back within seven seconds all the time they just press as high and as quickly as possible. The key is they ALL do it with intelligence which makes it effective. They don't all just run at the ball. Two will go then two will cover the pass etc. Gerrard does that too (reads the game brilliantly) but he can't do it when the guys next to him haven't got an ounce of intelligence or an ounce of energy.

I think I must watch different matches than some of youz

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

Barca don't win it back within seven seconds all the time they just press as high and as quickly as possible. The key is they ALL do it with intelligence which makes it effective. They don't all just run at the ball. Two will go then two will cover the pass etc. Gerrard does that too (reads the game brilliantly) but he can't do it when the guys next to him haven't got an ounce of intelligence or an ounce of energy.

I think I must watch different matches than some of youz

I know they don't do it all the time and I know ALL players need to do it together, but I don't agree that Gerrard does it and others don't. Gerrard is one of our laziest players (naturally bettered by Glen Johnson in the lazy ranks) who hardly ever tries to get the ball back when HE loses it. I'm not talking about twenty, thirty or forty yard sprints to regain possession, I'm talking about when he is five yards away from the player he gave it too and he turns away in disgust with him self (or someone else if the pass was meant to go to him which is superb leadership skills ) rather than help his team mates!

I love Gerrard and I wouldn't swap him for anyone but he isn't without his faults!

Edit: I don't expect us to be Barca, I hate the link to them. We are Liverpool Football Club!

 

[InBiscanWeTrust]

I know they don't do it all the time and I know ALL players need to do it together, but I don't agree that Gerrard does it and others don't. Gerrard is one of our laziest players (naturally bettered by Glen Johnson in the lazy ranks) who hardly ever tries to get the ball back when HE loses it. I'm not talking about twenty, thirty or forty yard sprints to regain possession, I'm talking about when he is five yards away from the player he gave it too and he turns away in disgust with him self (or someone else if the pass was meant to go to him which is superb leadership skills ) rather than help his team mates!

I love Gerrard and I wouldn't swap him for anyone but he isn't without his faults!

Edit: I don't expect us to be Barca, I hate the link to them. We are Liverpool Football Club!

I'm worry that I'm tending to agree with your quite a lot recently. Gerrard is lazy and has been for a while when it comes to getting possession back. This goes back to the Rafa days and I think he realised this hence pushed Gerrard further forward allowing him that freedom that he doesn't need to track back with players.

As amazing as he is, this is one area that he's lost in recent years, maybe because he's saving energy now that he's getting on a bit, but certainly isn't productive to the whole "win the ball back in 7 seconds".

 

[DirtyFrank]

I actually thought our problem last year was after the 7 seconds. We'd all press Gerrard included when we lost the ball but if & when the opposition broke out, our midfield stopped, Gerrard included & watched from the opposition half as they attacked our DM & CB's: the only players left in our half. This disappeared due to withdrawing to accommodate Carraghers lack of pace.

That is what (as Billy says) is the difference between us & Barca. We didn't seem to know what to do next as a team if we didn't win the ball back in those 7 seconds.

I've suspected that the players round Gerrard have hid behind him for years & it's only showing because he can't do one & half jobs anymore.

Need better players around him than Downing, Shelvey, Spearing & as it stands (possible return to form/improvement aside) also Henderson & Allen.

But we already knew that.

His presence does disjoint the team mentally. But I'd rather have him as just one(rather than one & a half) good player these days than a well balanced mediocre 3 with no one to hide behind. Even though I'd always like an 11 selected by merit.

Hopefully we get real competition into that midfield area within the next couple of windows & then we can talk about Gerrard having to earn a place.

 

[The artist JerryChristmas]

I know they don't do it all the time and I know ALL players need to do it together, but I don't agree that Gerrard does it and others don't. Gerrard is one of our laziest players (naturally bettered by Glen Johnson in the lazy ranks) who hardly ever tries to get the ball back when HE loses it. I'm not talking about twenty, thirty or forty yard sprints to regain possession, I'm talking about when he is five yards away from the player he gave it too and he turns away in disgust with him self (or someone else if the pass was meant to go to him which is superb leadership skills ) rather than help his team mates!

I love Gerrard and I wouldn't swap him for anyone but he isn't without his faults!

Edit: I don't expect us to be Barca, I hate the link to them. We are Liverpool Football Club!

I've heard the "lazy" tag banded about on here before and it always leaves me amazed tbh. I'll give you the point about him giving the ball away and not making a whole hearted effort but that's hardly commonplace and I'd say frustration can get the better of him at times (a fault of his definitely) but did you notice how that got rarer and rarer as the season wore on? Ask yourself why....it's because he was playing with Lucas back in the team, Henderson playing well and covering a ton of ground and Coutinho who he could give the ball to and not have to go try and win it back 5 seconds later.

He's still a great player (as you know) but he can't make up for the faults of those around him anymore. Surround him with **** and he won't/can't carry the teamlike he so often did but put a proper group around him and his faults are pretty much irrelevant compared to what he brings to the team.