George Floyd R.I.P

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Tobes said:
You should maybe do a bit more research if you want to understand why the statues of that man are seen as being racially offensive in the Southern States. And there’s plenty of accounts of his cruelty.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/06/the-myth-of-the-kindly-general-lee/529038/
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Not really ... I studied American history... good article but of course that's only one interpretation of Lee's character and written a long time after his death ... unlike the transcripts from his adversaries at the time ... and obviously a little bias crept in as the writer also seeks to malign Lee's tactical genius which was also held in great regard by his adversaries...Lee graduated 2nd in class from West Point and also served with distinction in the war with Mexico.. the first statues of Lee of course went up pretty soon after the end of the war and not in the 20th century at the behest of white supremicists.
 
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aberdude said:
I think we are at a point dude yeah....... Things gotta change for the better now and there's Nowt more out dated than institutional racism.
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But does that apply to this country?

I personally don't see as anywhere near the scale of America, or even slightly there.

Am there to be proven wrong though of course.

Got no issue with peaceful black lies matter demonstrations at all, lumping that all coppers are bastards (they aren't) into it makes me a bit nervous of what this can evolve into myself.
 
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Most British coppers I see these days (apart from those on tv), always look nothing more than kids. The sort of age I'd be compelled to help out, if they were in a spot of bother. That's not saying cops can't be shhites mind, saw plenty of it back in my younger days. I'd like to think coppers have changed in this country compared back to my youth, and I've no reason to doubt they haven't, but I'm not an inner city, black kid, so have no means of measuring it.

First time I remember a copper hitting me, was when I was but a wee lad, being a shhite climbing roof tops, I thought I was clever because the cops couldn't get me up there. Bastards just waited until it was time to go home for my tea, the choice was them clout me, or get the wrath of my parents. So eventually I had to climb down and take my punishment, as long has the coppers didn't go home and tell your mum, it was a beating worth taking.
 
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FosseFilberto said:
Not really ... I studied American history... good article but of course that's only one interpretation of Lee's character and written a long time after his death ... unlike the transcripts from his adversaries at the time ... and obviously a little bias crept in as the writer also seeks to malign Lee's tactical genius which was also held in great regard by his adversaries...Lee graduated 2nd in class from West Point and also served with distinction in the war with Mexico.. the first statues of Lee of course went up pretty soon after the end of the war and not in the 20th century at the behest of white supremicists.
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You patently didn’t study this subject, as the statue you mentioned was erected in 1924.

Also this;



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Chart of public symbols of the Confederacy and its leaders as surveyed by the Southern Poverty Law Center, by year of establishment.[13]
Most of the Confederate monuments concerned were built in periods of racial conflict, such as when Jim Crow laws were being introduced in the late 19th century and at the start of the 20th century or during the Civil Rights Movement of the 1950s and 1960s.[a]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Removal_of_Confederate_monuments_and_memorials#cite_note-16 These two periods also coincided with the 50th anniversary and the American Civil War Centennial.[15] The peak in construction of Civil War Monuments occurred between the late 1890s up to 1920, with a second, smaller peak in the late 1950s to mid 1960s.[16]

According to historian Jane Dailey from University of Chicago, in many cases the purpose of the monuments was not to celebrate the past but rather to promote a "white supremacist future".[17] Another historian, Karyn Cox, from the University of North Carolina at Charlotte, has written that the monuments are "a legacy of the brutally racist Jim Crow era".[18] A historian from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, James Leloudis, stated that "The funders and backers of these monuments are very explicit that they are requiring a political education and a legitimacy for the Jim Crow era and the right of white men to rule."[19]

Adam Goodheart, Civil War author and director of the Starr Center at Washington College, stated in National Geographic: "They're 20th-century artifacts in the sense that a lot of it had to do with a vision of national unity that embraced Southerners as well as Northerners, but importantly still excluded black people."[4]



 
Chief said:
But does that apply to this country?

I personally don't see as anywhere near the scale of America, or even slightly there.

Am there to be proven wrong though of course.

Got no issue with peaceful black lies matter demonstrations at all, lumping that all coppers are bastards (they aren't) into it makes me a bit nervous of what this can evolve into myself.
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Black lies are just as bad as white ones mate <whistle>
 
Tobes said:
You patently didn’t study this subject, as the statue you mentioned was erected in 1924.

Also this;



You must log in or register to see images

Chart of public symbols of the Confederacy and its leaders as surveyed by the Southern Poverty Law Center, by year of establishment.[13]
Most of the Confederate monuments concerned were built in periods of racial conflict, such as when Jim Crow laws were being introduced in the late 19th century and at the start of the 20th century or during the Civil Rights Movement of the 1950s and 1960s.[a] These two periods also coincided with the 50th anniversary and the American Civil War Centennial.[15] The peak in construction of Civil War Monuments occurred between the late 1890s up to 1920, with a second, smaller peak in the late 1950s to mid 1960s.[16]

According to historian Jane Dailey from University of Chicago, in many cases the purpose of the monuments was not to celebrate the past but rather to promote a "white supremacist future".[17] Another historian, Karyn Cox, from the University of North Carolina at Charlotte, has written that the monuments are "a legacy of the brutally racist Jim Crow era".[18] A historian from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, James Leloudis, stated that "The funders and backers of these monuments are very explicit that they are requiring a political education and a legitimacy for the Jim Crow era and the right of white men to rule."[19]

Adam Goodheart, Civil War author and director of the Starr Center at Washington College, stated in National Geographic: "They're 20th-century artifacts in the sense that a lot of it had to do with a vision of national unity that embraced Southerners as well as Northerners, but importantly still excluded black people."[4]
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If you read my original post it mentions "confederate general" because that was what the news report had stated... I wasn't aware that it was Lee ... but statues to Lee were numerous in the late 1800s ...

... and as I've said, I prefer to give more credence to quotes and articles made at the time by those that lived it rather than academics 100 years after the events and possibly influenced by an agenda ... but each to their own <ok>
 
FosseFilberto said:
If you read my original post it mentions "confederate general" because that was what the news report had stated... I wasn't aware that it was Lee ... but statues to Lee were numerous in the late 1800s ...

... and as I've said, I prefer to give more credence to quotes and articles made at the time by those that lived it rather than academics 100 years after the events and possibly influenced by an agenda ... but each to their own <ok>
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Yet you ignored the quote from one his slaves who tried to escape, that was in the first article I posted.

When two of his slaves escaped and were recaptured, Lee either beat them himself or ordered the overseer to “lay it on well.” Wesley Norris, one of the slaves who was whipped, recalled that “not satisfied with simply lacerating our naked flesh, Gen. Lee then ordered the overseer to thoroughly wash our backs with brine, which was done.”

Same as you’ve ignored all of the evidence I’ve provided you with, that clearly shows why and when the monuments to Lee were erected. But you’ve made this about your ego now and are refusing to admit you probably called it wrong, so hey ho. Standard.
 
Archers Road said:
I've got you on ignore.


Must be some technical issue that explains why I can still hear your snide whining and desperate pleas for attention.
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<party>

This gets even more weird. You’ve got me on ignore but take me off ignore every day to reply to my posts. You pissed again? <laugh>
 
brb said:
Most British coppers I see these days (apart from those on tv), always look nothing more than kids. The sort of age I'd be compelled to help out, if they were in a spot of bother. That's not saying cops can't be shhites mind, saw plenty of it back in my younger days. I'd like to think coppers have changed in this country compared back to my youth, and I've no reason to doubt they haven't, but I'm not an inner city, black kid, so have no means of measuring it.

First time I remember a copper hitting me, was when I was but a wee lad, being a shhite climbing roof tops, I thought I was clever because the cops couldn't get me up there. Bastards just waited until it was time to go home for my tea, the choice was them clout me, or get the wrath of my parents. So eventually I had to climb down and take my punishment, as long has the coppers didn't go home and tell your mum, it was a beating worth taking.
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You know you're old when Old Bill look young.


I'm sure I saw a couple of British Transport Police playing conkers the other day.
 
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Tobes said:
Yet you ignored the quote from one his slaves who tried to escape, that was in the first article I posted.

When two of his slaves escaped and were recaptured, Lee either beat them himself or ordered the overseer to “lay it on well.” Wesley Norris, one of the slaves who was whipped, recalled that “not satisfied with simply lacerating our naked flesh, Gen. Lee then ordered the overseer to thoroughly wash our backs with brine, which was done.”

Same as you’ve ignored all of the evidence I’ve provided you with, that clearly shows why and when the monuments to Lee were erected. But you’ve made this about your ego now and are refusing to admit you probably called it wrong, so hey ho. Standard.
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I didn't ignore the quote ... I chose to balance it with others that you seem to dismiss ...

Lee was opposed to secession that is common knowledge ... his preference was to stay in the Union ... a Union that was committed to abolishing slavery ... interpret that as you will. His documented comments on slavery are ambiguous to say the least.

The statue in New Orleans went up in 1884 ... but ignore that if it troubles your ego.
 
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Archers Road said:
You know you're old when Old Bill look young.


I'm sure I saw a couple of British Transport Police playing conkers the other day.
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I know and agree, everytime I see coppers these days, it's like the phrase 'bit wet behind the ears.' As you know I don't mean that in any derogatory manner, I just wonder how they manage to cope with the complexities and particularly violence that can come with policing.

Conkers <laugh>
 
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brb said:
I know and agree, everytime I see coppers these days, it's like the phrase 'bit wet behind the ears.' As you know I don't mean that in any derogatory manner, I just wonder how they manage to cope with the complexities and particularly violence that can come with policing.

Conkers <laugh>
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They're all wearing body cams now mate, and everyone is filming or recording them. **** doing that job, when every little scrote knows his rights, and the cops can't even issue a judicial right hander when no-one is looking (because someone is always looking)
 
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